My children are half Mexican and my son's DNA (haven't had my daughter tested), showed 2% DNA from Senegal.I was looking at the Ancestry website and reading how that is the most common African DNA.NOW...I have to use this to help me. I am fairly certain the African DNA is not from my children's Casillas line (their paternal grandmother) but it could be in the Rodriguez line (their paternal grandfather.) I have that line in the Ahualulco area. Wondering if anyone else has had any success in tracing their African ancestry in Mexico.
Katrina Link
Free woman has free child even if the father is a slave
The (USA) colonies did not have slavery until three indentured servants decided to run away. Of The three indentured servants, two were white and one was black. The three were caught and put on trial. The two white men had their time extended. The black man was punished more severely and was sentenced to be a slave for life. The black man was married to a white woman. Their grandchildren passed as white as they were only one fourth black. The descendants blended into white families. This first slave is an ancestor to Obamas white mother. So The first Black president of the USA descended through his white mother's side from the first black slave here in the colonies that became the USA.
Senegalese DNA
Hello Katrina,
It’s funny that you mention this … my father always told us we were Espanoles … Boy what a surprise when I started to do genealogy research! And even more surprised when we did the DNA testing.
In answer to your question. I have had some luck in tracing back to Mulatos and Esclavos Negros. Unfortunately, they eventually end in roadblocks since at some point you end up with a couple that has no surname. Simply slaves that belonged to someone. No way to find out where they came from or even know if you are dealing with the same couple. Having said that, I was surprised at how far back some of these lines can be traced.
Maybe someone else can give you better information. Good luck.
-Angelina-
wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Katrina Link
>
> My children are half Mexican and my son's DNA (haven't had my daughter tested), showed 2% DNA from Senegal.I was looking at the Ancestry website and reading how that is the most common African DNA.NOW...I have to use this to help me. I am fairly certain the African DNA is not from my children's Casillas line (their paternal grandmother) but it could be in the Rodriguez line (their paternal grandfather.) I have that line in the Ahualulco area. Wondering if anyone else has had any success in tracing their African ancestry in Mexico.
> Katrina Link
Senegalese DNA
Katrina and Angelina
This is very interesting that this came up because Ive been reading and going through records all day for information about slaves and slavery because im writing a paper about slavery in Mexico in a couple of weeks. in my own ancestors ive seen mulatos and mulatos libres but havent yet come across esclavos but im guessing if someone was a mulato libre at some point they were probly a mulato esclavo. Im trying to find that point and also document who the slaves and slave owners are to see if connections can be made to locate their ancestors. You mentioned that Senegal was the most common African DNA but I'm wondering if thats the most common in nueva galicia. I don't know because ive only been reading about it today. But I know that the early records in aguascalientes seem to show most Africans brought to Mexico we're from places like Angola and the Congo or places like Santo Tomé which are all in the south west of Africa. The Senegal slave trade was controlled by the Portuguese and Dutch until the late 1600s when the French took over Senegal. Senegal is in the northwest coast of Africa. My guess is the senegal people were brought to a different part of Mexico but i really dont know. lookin at my relatives that have taken a DNA
test ive seen Mali, Benin, Togo and Ghana which is pretty close to Senegal, but no actual Senegal at least in my own family. I'd be curious to know from the people that really know DNA where in Africa the majority of the DNA in nueva galicia comes from. Also, does anyone know what the differences are, if there are any, between slavery in America and slavery in Mexico
Danny C. Alonso
Senegalese DNA
Hi Katrina,
Do you have a tree or a list of ancestors that you're stuck on? It's possible that they've already been documented by members of the group. Also, I agree with Danny that, at least when their location is mentioned, that the first groups of slaves seem to be always mentioned from Angola, Terra Nova, Santo Tome and the Congo.
and Danny,
I'm glad to see you're incorporating genealogy into your coursework, I've done that too. Although, presently where I am in my studies I rarely have time for genealogy or anything else. And, regarding the differences, I'm not sure there are any differences that matter to the slaves. I think slavery in colonial Mexico was at times as brutal as it was in the US. I've enclosed some pdf's for you to review, the first one especially shows the brutality of slavery in Mexico. The only difference I can see between slavery in the southern US and slavery in Mexico would be cultural and religious. Cultural in the sense, that besides, being enslaved and having an alien culture imposed against your will, there would also be a difference between the Anglo culture of Alabama, Georgia, etc., and the Spanish culture of Nueva Galicia. Although, again, that probably doesn't matter to the slaves. The religious differences might be more meaningful but it's hard to know for sure. I know that there are hundreds of records where slaves are baptized and married, including marrying non-slaves. I can't imagine that being encouraged or even allowed in the southern states, particularly among non-slaves, so the Sacraments may in some way change the dynamic between the slaves of the southern states and those in Mexico. I think the second article may cover that and if your paper is one of those "compare and contrast" papers then that maybe a subject worth exploring. It's an interesting subject to cover, I don't think much has been written about it. Let me know how it comes out.
Here's some pdf articles about slavery in Mexico:
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/slavery/TA-1969.pdf
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~tochtli/Colonial%20Mexico.pdf
Chris
Senegalese DNA
Thank you Chris this looks like good information. I reaaly appreciate it.an i think thats a good idea to focus on religion differences and stuff like that.
Danny C. Alonso
differences in Slavery in Mexico
Danny I don't remember where I read it but (a Priest stated this) it was stated that children were not born a slave etc...in Mexico
while in the U.S. A child of an enslaved mother would be born into slavery, regardless if the father were a freeborn ...(this is from wikipedia)
differences in Slavery in Mexico
I have seen evidence in Mexico that the child was given the status of the mother regardless of that of the father. I’ve seen many “testamentos” that list young slaves born from slave mothers. Since they were considered property, most documents state how the slave was acquired. Some even have detailed instructions on what is to become of the slave upon death of the owner.
However, I do believe that slavery was outlawed in Mexico before the US even thought about it. This was probably because there was a large enough native population that could be used as a labor force and did not need to import slaves.
-Angelina-
> On Feb 12, 2017, at 7:49 AM, sarod77@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Danny I don't remember where I read it but (a Priest stated this) it was
> stated that children were not born a slave etc...in Mexico while in the U.S.
> A child of an enslaved mother would be born into slavery, regardless if the
> father were a freeborn ...(this is from wikipedia)
>
differences in Slavery in Mexico
Hi Angelina,
Hope you are well. As usual, you are correct, the condition of the mother always determines the condition of the child. If the mother is a slave, the child is always a slave and if the mother is free, the child is always free. That's a universal principle that dates back to Ancient Rome.
Chris
Senegalese DNA
This is turning out to be an interesting subject.
I was thinking that the Northern African DNA could actually come from the Spaniards themselves. After all, parts of the Iberian Peninsula were under Moor control and … The Romans ventured into both the Iberian peninsula and Africa, they could also have brought in Northern Africans into the Spain.
My DNA showed both Northern and Southern African DNA. In my paper trail it was clear that lines in my mother’s family came from African Slaves I assume that would be Southern African. However, my father’s family were actually “Espanoles” with only one line that had indigenous blood and another that vaguely referred to “moriscos”. So where did the Northern African DNA come from?
-Angelina- wrote: wrote:
wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2017, at 9:36 PM, Danny Alonso
>
> Katrina and Angelina
>
> This is very interesting that this came up because Ive been reading and
> going through records all day for information about slaves and slavery
> because im writing a paper about slavery in Mexico in a couple of weeks. in
> my own ancestors ive seen mulatos and mulatos libres but havent yet come
> across esclavos but im guessing if someone was a mulato libre at some point
> they were probly a mulato esclavo. Im trying to find that point and also
> document who the slaves and slave owners are to see if connections can be
> made to locate their ancestors. You mentioned that Senegal was the most
> common African DNA but I'm wondering if thats the most common in nueva
> galicia. I don't know because ive only been reading about it today. But I
> know that the early records in aguascalientes seem to show most Africans
> brought to Mexico we're from places like Angola and the Congo or places
> like Santo Tomé which are all in the south west of Africa. The Senegal
> slave trade was controlled by the Portuguese and Dutch until the late 1600s
> when the French took over Senegal. Senegal is in the northwest coast of
> Africa. My guess is the senegal people were brought to a different part of
> Mexico but i really dont know. lookin at my relatives that have taken a DNA
> test ive seen Mali, Benin, Togo and Ghana which is pretty close to Senegal,
> but no actual Senegal at least in my own family. I'd be curious to know
> from the people that really know DNA where in Africa the majority of the
> DNA in nueva galicia comes from. Also, does anyone know what the
> differences are, if there are any, between slavery in America and slavery
> in Mexico
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 6:45 PM Angelina
>
>> Hello Katrina,
>>
>> It’s funny that you mention this … my father always told us we were
>> Espanoles … Boy what a surprise when I started to do genealogy research!
>> And even more surprised when we did the DNA testing.
>>
>> In answer to your question. I have had some luck in tracing back to
>> Mulatos and Esclavos Negros. Unfortunately, they eventually end in
>> roadblocks since at some point you end up with a couple that has no
>> surname. Simply slaves that belonged to someone. No way to find out where
>> they came from or even know if you are dealing with the same couple. Having
>> said that, I was surprised at how far back some of these lines can be
>> traced.
>>
>> Maybe someone else can give you better information. Good luck.
>>
>> -Angelina-
>>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Katrina Link
>>>
>>> My children are half Mexican and my son's DNA (haven't had my daughter
>> tested), showed 2% DNA from Senegal.I was looking at the Ancestry website
>> and reading how that is the most common African DNA.NOW...I have to use
>> this to help me. I am fairly certain the African DNA is not from my
>> children's Casillas line (their paternal grandmother) but it could be in
>> the Rodriguez line (their paternal grandfather.) I have that line in the
>> Ahualulco area. Wondering if anyone else has had any success in tracing
>> their African ancestry in Mexico.
>>> Katrina Link
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
Senegalese DNA
theres so much good information here. this is so intersting. this will
definitely make a good paper and until i started looking into this subject
i had no idea that Mexico even ended slavery before america. i wonder why
they realized slavery was wrong so much earlier
Danny C. Alonso
>
>
Slavery in Mexico
Well, maybe I misspoke. I believe technically what was outlawed was the importation of slaves. If memory serves, the native populations were pretty much considered property of the land owners. Therefore, while they were not importing black slaves a form of slavery did exist in Mexico for a very long time.
It should be a very interesting topic to research.
Good Luck.
-Angelina-
Rodríguez
Hola Katrina:
El apellido Rodríguez es muy común en México y otros países, hay muchas líneas. Yo he estudiado dos líneas:
Rodríguez de orígen portugués establecidos en México y dedicados al tráfico de esclavos de Cabo Verde (frente a Senegal).
Rodríguez ligados a la familia Ramírez de Coy en Huelva, zona de tráfico de esclavos en el siglo XVI, llevaron negros a sus minas y haciendas.
Podrías investigar un poco sobre la familia Rodríguez para saber si proviene de alguna de estas líneas.
Podrías ver en Youtube WDYTYA by African Historical Archive sobre la esclavitud.
Saludos
Marcelina
slavery in Mexico
I was tracking the Rolon Family is Jalisco but found they were not my family after all but they were very interesting in that in the mid 1600's they are listed as Mestiso, then the line goes to Mulato Libre then one had a child with a slave, that child became a Mulato Esclavo then that child married a Mestisa and their child was Mulato Libre and so on..
~
Marriage: 24 June 1738 in Zapotlan El Grande, Jalisco
Georje Rolon Mulato Esclavo from Hacienda de Santa Catharina
Natural son of Lucas Rolon deceased and Gertrudis Antonia
With: Maria Gertrudis Carmona Mestiza from Zapotlan
Parents: Antonio Carmona and Martina de Orzua
Pad: Anttonio Rolon and Mathiana Padilla
Wit: Francisco Vasquez and Antonia Basques
source: 0281944 film
1666-1761
batch: M604544
.
slavery in Mexico
I found that slaves were freed in 1824 and completely abolished in 1829 so it probly was started with independence but was that the reason for it ending or was there other reasons if anyone knows. was there an abolition movement like in America or did they just realize it was wrong and want to stop it before the other countries.
Danny C. Alonso
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Hello everyone,
I'd like to add to this discussion. So my mother is a Torres from Michoacan, and growing up she'd always asserted her European lineage as she was a light skinned Mexican, so too was her mother.
About 2 years ago I got her ethnic composition done, and to our collective surprise she has 6% African from Nigeria and Cameroon, very close to Congo. She is also 7% East Asian and 7% Middle Eastern from Nigeria. Finally, 23% is Indian. Her European is 57%.
So I next tested her Mitochondrial DNA and that came back with her female line coming from a European Haplo Group - so it would turn out that all that mixing came from mother and fathers among her paternal lines.
I have not begun to dig that deep into the records but I would be thrilled to find out who these recent ancestors were.
Gil
DNA Senegales and Other parts
I believe Angelina is right that slavery was abolished in Mexico long
before the US, I think about the same time Mexico gained independence in
the 1820's. But, not sure about the reasons, but, guessing Angelina is
right about indigenous labor. In response to Gil, I also was very surprised
when I did my DNA a couple years back. It wasn't anything like I would've
expected. 100% of my ancestors are from Mexico and I felt my DNA
results didn't reflect that. My results were: 6% North African, 1% African
South Central Hunter Gatherers, 19% Native American, 6% East Asian, 23%
Iberian Peninsula, 11% Europe West, 11% Italy/Greece, 6% Great Britain, 3%
Scandinavia, 3% European Jewish, 3% Ireland and 8% Middle East. To me those
results don't seem very Mexican which I was a little disappointed by.
Although, I guess it reflects the diversity that exists in Mexico. I
suppose I was hoping for more Native and Spanish.
Paige
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Paige,
I believe your DNA tests are in line with European heritage. Spain has a rich history that explains all your markers. The Romans expanded through Spain into Africa opening the door to peoples from their entire empire. Jews spread throughout Europe. Goths were there even before the Romans. The Goths themselves were conquering bands of warriors that could have easily brought Asian DNA into the Iberian Peninsula. It really comes to no surprise the diversity of DNA that came to Mexico and mixed with the Native American population.
By the way, my DNA breakdown is almost exactly like yours. You have a little more Italian and a little less Jewish. What took me by surprise was the Scandinavian. It looks like our ancestors covered the whole world :)
-Angelina-
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Angelina,
I definitely agree that Mexican DNA is very diverse. Far more diverse than
I would've thought. But, something you said makes me wonder whether all
African DNA is from Mexican slavery. Something you said about the Moors
that conquered parts of Spain makes me question whether all African DNA
that shows up in Mexico is necessarily from slavery. Presumably, the Moors
carry some small amount of central and southern African DNA, I would guess.
Obviously, most of us have come across a record that indicates a person was
a mulato, so clearly some comes from Mexico, but, could it be that some of
our African DNA actually originates in Spain and not Mexico. Has there been
any studies that show whether the Spanish from Spain carry any small amount
of African DNA?
Paige
On Tuesday, February 14, 2017, Angelina wrote:
> Paige,
>
> I believe your DNA tests are in line with European heritage. Spain has a
> rich history that explains all your markers. The Romans expanded through
> Spain into Africa opening the door to peoples from their entire empire.
> Jews spread throughout Europe. Goths were there even before the Romans. The
> Goths themselves were conquering bands of warriors that could have easily
> brought Asian DNA into the Iberian Peninsula. It really comes to no
> surprise the diversity of DNA that came to Mexico and mixed with the Native
> American population.
>
> By the way, my DNA breakdown is almost exactly like yours. You have a
> little more Italian and a little less Jewish. What took me by surprise was
> the Scandinavian. It looks like our ancestors covered the whole world :)
>
> -Angelina-
>
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Hi Paige,
I thought about this too and am not familiar enough to know exactly how
far back in time these ethnic origins tests really go. I was under the impression
these test were like a big sonar blast that showed the impression of no more than
8 generations back of DNA info from the specific person being tested. While I have
not identified who my mother's founding family were in Mexico, on my Topete line we've been in Mexico for 10 generations, I am assuming 10 generations on my mothers family so it
had been my assumption that her DNA Ethnic Origins was a snap shot of cumulative
DNA from no more than 8-10 generations. Happy to hear if anyone else has a better understanding of the ethnic test.
Gil
DNA Senegales and Other
Hi Gil,
I don't know myself. I thought it went back farther but I'm not an expert
in DNA. But as an example I have 3% Irish and my tree on all sides goes
back into Mexico at least 200 years and usually much more than that. And, I
haven't yet come across an O'Reilly among my ancestors so I assume it's
picking up ancient Iberian Celtic DNA. I'm also questioning the
percentages. For instance, I'm only 1% sub-Saharan African and I've come
across lots of mulatos in my records. Either some of them were mislabeled
or I'm more African than that.
Paige
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017, wrote:
> Hi Paige, I thought about this too and am not familiar enough to know
> exactly
> how far back in time these ethnic origins tests really go. I was under the
> impression these test were like a big sonar blast that showed the
> impression
> of no more than 8 generations back of DNA info from the specific person
> being
> tested. While I have not identified who my mother's founding family were in
> Mexico, on my Topete line we've been in Mexico for 10 generations, I am
> assuming 10 generations on my mothers family so it had been my assumption
> that her DNA Ethnic Origins was a snap shot of cumulative DNA from no more
> than 8-10 generations. Happy to hear if anyone else has a better
> understanding of the ethnic test. Gil
>
DNA Senegales and Other
All of the DNA companies have a different reference database to compare customers' DNA to and they also use different methodologies in creating their calculators which in turn creates many different results even for the same person getting tested at all three companies. All of that is different from what the geneticists use for the studies that they publish which I will get into later. The different companies will also state how far back in time the test is reporting the ethnicity from but that timeframe is just a general estimate and not a definite timeframe.
I can tell which company a person has tested with based on the names of the categories or ethnic groups and I can tell that Paige tested with AncestryDNA because of the Italy/Greece category and the British being separated from Irish. At 23andme the results would be different and there would not be any Greek because they call it Balkan and that does not show up in Spaniards or Mexicans. If she were to get any Italian it would just be a small amount. Spaniards also get Italian at 23andme in a small amount so the Italian in Mexico is mostly from Spaniards. British & Irish also shows up at 23andme in Spaniards at up to 7% even when they from as far south as Andalusia. Italians and British also get some Iberian so I associate their Iberian and the Italian and British & Irish in Spaniards as very old DNA from the pre-historical period that has persisted in the DNA handed down through many different ancestors. Spaniards and Latin Americans get a lot more Iberian at 23andme compared to AncestryDNA which aligns well with documented history of Mexico and Spain so I like the 23andme test more. 23andme might not do as good with North African or West African DNA in Spaniards since it is so low in them. The North African DNA in Spaniards is higher with FamilyTreeDNA but there is no way to know which company is more accurate for now. AncestryDNA is also the only company that separates African DNA into a lot of regions such as Senegal, Nigeria and so on.
The study of Mexicans by Andrés Moreno-Estrada et al. in the Carlos D. Bustamente lab of Stanford included Spaniards in an admixture test which showed that Spaniards do have a small percentage of African DNA. If you zoom in on the picture at https://d2ufo47lrtsv5s.cloudfront.net/content/sci/344/6189/1280/F2.larg… you can see Andalucian, Galician, and Spanish with other Europeans and they have just a little less African, represented by the color green, than Portuguese and about the same as Italians. Almost all of the Cosmopolitan Mexican populations have more African (green) than the Spanish and maybe about same or a little more than Portuguese.
The autosomal DNA for matching with cousin does disappear in most cases within 5 or 6 generations but is retained in some cases for more generations. The amount of DNA needed for matching is greater than the DNA needed for determining shared ethnicity with populations so they really are two different things and should be looked at differently as far as inheritance.
Saludos,
Armando
DNA Senegales and Other
Hi Armando,
Yes! It was an AncestryDNA test. In your opinion, if I've already taken Ancestry do you recommend taking another one at 23andme or maybe take all three? Is there any benefit? Just curious. Also, is there some type of conversion from one test to another, such as, if I have a certain amount of Italy/Greek and 23andme doesn't have Greek, would it just show up as more Iberian? And, thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us. Unfortunately, I know nothing about DNA.
Paige
DNA Senegales and Other
Hello Paige,
I do recommend getting another test with 23andme. The Italy/Greek will show up as more Iberian, Broadly Southern European, and some Italian but as I had posted before that small amount of Italian is found in many Spaniards. I think that it is beneficial to see a more accurate breakdown of the ethnicity. That way it doesn't cause people to think that they have a recent Italian ancestor like two posters at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/23548 and http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/23733
Recently a person from Mexico that had 27% Italy/Greece and only 12% Iberian Peninsula on AncestryDNA got 28.4% Iberian, 24% Broadly Southern European, and 2.4% Italian. The 23andme results are much more in line with documented ancestry of Mexico. The difference in total African ancestry was only 3.3% with 7% at Ancestry and 3.7% at 23andme. I mentioned that since this thread is for the African ancestry.
Yesterday FTDNA started a $19 transfer from AncestryDNA at https://www.familytreedna.com/autosomal-transfer. I would try it out since it is so cheap and there is supposedly an upcoming update to the ethnicity calculator called myOrigins. It really needs an update since it is worst than AncestryDNA.
Armando
MTDNA
Armando, I did order the MTDNA. The process at FamilyTree was really confusing and no one to tell you how the whole process works.
When I received the results, I went through many different pages to understand the results I found nothing. A match emailed me and she had no Idea what the numbers really meant on the left 0, 1, 2, 3. she thought it meant we were super closely related. I finally called and spoke to a rep who said they mean nothing I asked more questions that my matched had stated that the Haplogroup was rare, since I hadn't found an explanation I doubted that statement and ask the Rep. He said Family Tree does not provide that INFO but that the whole world would have to be tested to know that. This I found unbelievable as in many studies there are targeted areas, people, causes etc. and an either blind, double-blind, and control groups, to come to a conclusion like the recent one about coffee in the news today.
The final problem I felt was that I read their privacy statement in that one owns the pictures and documents created on Family Tree, but the rest belongs to Family Tree. This might be true of other sites, I just did not read before so it now has me thinking. I wonder are these tests only used to further those who are looking for something particular like scientists, or administrators to prove something. (the rep said scientists and others but the test was not really for regular people, this is what I understood from what he said).
I am hoping you have a more optimistic view on why the Y(male) test and MtDNA(female)test would help us all.
Thanks!
MTDNA
Hello Simona,
The mtDNA test results can be confusing for some people since there is so much info in the learning center and elsewhere about mtDNA. The numbers on the left with 0, 1, 2, 3 are the Genetic Distance. A 0 means that it is an exact match without any additional mutations in yourself or your match. Most of the time a GD of 1 more means that the match is not from a genealogical timeframe but there seems to be a problem with the reporting system right now and I have found new mutations in lineages less than 500 years old when multiple people with the same ancestor have tested which means that a GD of 1 can be genealogically relevant.
What is your haplogroup? I can try to be of more assistance if you can provide me with that. There are sites such as http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/haplogroup_select.htm or studies such as the one at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3322232/ that have information that FTDNA helpdesk isn't going to spend time pointing you to or explaining what they mean even though that study used samples from the FTDNA database.
Most of the people in the FTDNA database have ancestry from the British Isles so that is where most of the mtDNA haplogroups that they have info on are from. Using Full mtDNA for population studies is something that is relatively recent so there aren't many studies that have those results. There are a lot of factors to consider for what study will have enough samples and the one on coffee does have enough samples but I have no idea what those factors are. I don't think that geneticists have a lot of money for population studies of mtDNA which is the most important factor. I'm not even sure that FTDNA has included any of the studies results into it's database either. It's using build 14 of Phylotree according to http://www.phylotree.org/index.htm and the latest build is 17 http://www.phylotree.org/index.htm
The ownership statement that you mentioned is the following -
"You retain ownership in Personal Information and content such as photos, videos, posts, and comments submitted by you (collectively, “User Submitted Content”) to Family Tree DNA and its websites. You hereby grant Family Tree DNA a world-wide, transferable, royalty-free, irrevocable, and perpetual license to host, display, sub-license, distribute, recreate, modify, or use such User Submitted Content in any form, to any extent, or within any context Family Tree DNA deems necessary to promote, modify, or develop its services. This license continues even if you stop using Family Tree DNA’s services."
I don't know of anyone ever complaining of any of their content being used anywhere so I am not sure why that is there. There aren't many pictures on the FTDNA site to begin with. You might want to call FTDNA to see what that is about and how it could affect you.
When you asked me about mtDNA testing previous this was my response at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/23747 -
"The mtDNA test would be unlikely to resolve the issue that you mentioned but it tell you if your direct maternal line is Native American, European, Africa, or of another origin. You might even find matches that are significant but the likelihood is very low."
I meant to include could in between it tell. So after correcting that I meant that "The mtDNA test would be unlikely to resolve the issue that you mentioned but it [could] tell you if your direct maternal line is Native American, European, Africa, or of another origin. You might even find matches that are significant but the likelihood is very low." So I was trying to convey that using mtDNA for other than trying to determine the regional origin was unlikely to be helpful but the possibility still existed.
Y-DNA matching is also based on how many people are in the database and I had mentioned that too with my response of -
"With Y-DNA you have more of a chance of finding a match to someone with well documented ancestry if you test a male from the lineage that you mentioned. So your father, a male sibling, an uncle, or a close cousin would have to get the test. You can order the test and have it sent to the address of the tester if you don't live near them. Not everyone has matches though but as more people test the chances increase. We still need a lot of people to be tested. So we would be pleased if you were to participate."
What can and can't be said of a person's DNA is based on their DNA result and the people in the database. No one knows about their DNA until they get tested. If you do get tested you are allowing an opportunity to learn more about yourself. I don't think of that as a pessimistic view but more as an optimistic view since it is an opportunity. If I were pessimistic I would have said don't bother testing because you probably won't learn anything that you care about.
DNA testing
Thank you for your thoughtful response. From the time I submitted my questions to you, the person who is my exact match sent me some interesting information that addressed some of my important questions. You have answered the rest. Having worked on my family line for what seems like forever, every bit of information I can get is truly appreciated.
DNA testing
Dear Armando,
After over forty years of genealogy research, I am finally going to get my DNA tested. What company and tests do you recommend?
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
DNA Senegales and Other
Hi Paige,
Re the Irish DNA, that could be the case. Conversely, Re the African DNA, you need to remember that you only inherit 50% of each parent's DNA. One of you siblings might have more African DNA than you, if you know what I mean. What you have is no contradictory information.
Ethnic Origins WAS DNA Senegales and Other
One of my Mexican ancestresses, Juliana del Carmen Villavicencio, (isn't that a beautiful name?) is labeled a mestiza on her birth entry kept by the Roman Catholic Church in Jerez, Zacatecas. I would have no reason to question it except that, according to Record 947, p. 173, of the Sagrada Mitra by Luz Montejano Hilton, a dispensation of the third level of consanguity in her parents marriage information states that Cristobal Villavicencio, Spanish gentleman of 24 years, etc., and Phelipa Gertrudis de Chavez, Spanish lady of more than 30 years, etc. If her parents and ancestors are Spanish why was their daughter, Juliana del Carmen, labeled a mestiza? Marge Vallazza. :)
> On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:10, Paige Herrera wrote: wrote:
>
> Hi Gil,
>
> I don't know myself. I thought it went back farther but I'm not an expert
> in DNA. But as an example I have 3% Irish and my tree on all sides goes
> back into Mexico at least 200 years and usually much more than that. And, I
> haven't yet come across an O'Reilly among my ancestors so I assume it's
> picking up ancient Iberian Celtic DNA. I'm also questioning the
> percentages. For instance, I'm only 1% sub-Saharan African and I've come
> across lots of mulatos in my records. Either some of them were mislabeled
> or I'm more African than that.
>
> Paige
>
>
>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017,
>>
>> Hi Paige, I thought about this too and am not familiar enough to know
>> exactly
>> how far back in time these ethnic origins tests really go. I was under the
>> impression these test were like a big sonar blast that showed the
>> impression
>> of no more than 8 generations back of DNA info from the specific person
>> being
>> tested. While I have not identified who my mother's founding family were in
>> Mexico, on my Topete line we've been in Mexico for 10 generations, I am
>> assuming 10 generations on my mothers family so it had been my assumption
>> that her DNA Ethnic Origins was a snap shot of cumulative DNA from no more
>> than 8-10 generations. Happy to hear if anyone else has a better
>> understanding of the ethnic test. Gil
>>
Ethnic Origins WAS DNA Senegales and Other
Hello M Vallanzzo. What you described happens a lot. Remember that “Espanol” doesn’t mean that they have only Iberian Peninsula DNA. Often, the mother was not present at the baptism because it was believed she had to be bedridden for x amount of time and they felt it was critical to have the child baptized as soon as possible just in case it fell ill and passed away. Therefore, one theory is that the priests/scribes depended more on visual assessment of the child when they wrote down the ethnicity of child. With the rich DNA history of Spain, it is obvious that some children may be darker or more ethnic looking than others.
The other more simple explanation should be scribe error.
Regardless of which makes more sense to you. It is very common to find theses contradictory documents.
-Angelina- wrote: wrote: wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2017, at 6:03 PM, M Vallazza
>
> One of my Mexican ancestresses, Juliana del Carmen Villavicencio, (isn't that a beautiful name?) is labeled a mestiza on her birth entry kept by the Roman Catholic Church in Jerez, Zacatecas. I would have no reason to question it except that, according to Record 947, p. 173, of the Sagrada Mitra by Luz Montejano Hilton, a dispensation of the third level of consanguity in her parents marriage information states that Cristobal Villavicencio, Spanish gentleman of 24 years, etc., and Phelipa Gertrudis de Chavez, Spanish lady of more than 30 years, etc. If her parents and ancestors are Spanish why was their daughter, Juliana del Carmen, labeled a mestiza? Marge Vallazza. :)
>
>
>> On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:10, Paige Herrera
>>
>> Hi Gil,
>>
>> I don't know myself. I thought it went back farther but I'm not an expert
>> in DNA. But as an example I have 3% Irish and my tree on all sides goes
>> back into Mexico at least 200 years and usually much more than that. And, I
>> haven't yet come across an O'Reilly among my ancestors so I assume it's
>> picking up ancient Iberian Celtic DNA. I'm also questioning the
>> percentages. For instance, I'm only 1% sub-Saharan African and I've come
>> across lots of mulatos in my records. Either some of them were mislabeled
>> or I'm more African than that.
>>
>> Paige
>>
>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017,
>>>
>>> Hi Paige, I thought about this too and am not familiar enough to know
>>> exactly
>>> how far back in time these ethnic origins tests really go. I was under the
>>> impression these test were like a big sonar blast that showed the
>>> impression
>>> of no more than 8 generations back of DNA info from the specific person
>>> being
>>> tested. While I have not identified who my mother's founding family were in
>>> Mexico, on my Topete line we've been in Mexico for 10 generations, I am
>>> assuming 10 generations on my mothers family so it had been my assumption
>>> that her DNA Ethnic Origins was a snap shot of cumulative DNA from no more
>>> than 8-10 generations. Happy to hear if anyone else has a better
>>> understanding of the ethnic test. Gil
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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DNA Senegales and Other
Paige and Gil,
I agree with Paige. In order to show the ethnic mixes we are seeing from theses DNA tests, it would have to go back more than 10 generations.
-Angelina-
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Paige,
I think that is a real possibility. I have no idea if such a study has been done. Maybe someone else can shed some light on the subject.
Maybe someone is willing to take on the task.
-Angelina-
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Armando
On that picture with the Africans and Europeans and Native Mexicans is the
numbers on the left where it goes from 0.0 up to 1.0 does 1.0 mean 100%?
like if im looking at the small amout of green in Europeans which is less
than 0.2 is that mean their African is under 2% African or under 0.2%
african?
and on the picture with the Native Mexicans they also have a small amount
of green. since the native Mexicans have some green and they have no
contact with africans does that mean everybody has some amount of African
in them.
and if someone was 50% Spanish and 50% Native American is there some dna
company that tells you for your spanish how much Basque or Galicia or
Andalucia and for Native tells you how much Mayan or huichol or other
tribes.
Danny C. Alonso
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Hello Danny,
Yes, 1.0 means 100%. The small amount of green in Europeans which is less
than 0.2 means that their African is under 20% African. It's actually less than half of the portion between 0.0 and 0.2 so they have less than 10%. The top graphs depict each population broken up into 3 colors depicting ancestries. The bottom graph show them broken up in to 9 colors or 9 ancestries. The bottom graph of the Europeans only shows 3 colors (red, maroon, and green) depicting 3 ancestries because that is all the program, called ADMIXTURE, could detect out of the 9 colors (ancestries) but it reduced the green a little. It also reduced it a bit in the Native Mexicans and the Cosmopolitan samples.
Native Mexicans did have contact with Africans in post-Colombian times and that is why there is African in the Native Mexicans. It is higher in the Native Mexicans from Quintana Roo but since it is next to Belize and close to the Caribbean that isn't surprising. The Cosmopolitan Mexicans from Guerrero and Veracruz have the highest amount of African ancestry since they are closest to the ports that had the highest immigration of slaves.
No, not everyone has African DNA. Many of the European population do not have African DNA and many of the Native Mexicans do not have African DNA. It's easier to see if you go to https://pubs.aaas.org/Promo/promo_setup_rd.asp?dmc=P0RFA1 and create an account, if you don't have one, or to https://signin.aaas.org/oxauth/login if you do then once sign in then go to http://science.sciencemag.org/content/344/6189/1280.full.pdf and download the PDF then go to page 3 and zoom in on that graph on the K=9 portion. It is in a higher resolution. Each colored spike that you see is an individual. So for instance in the Basque there are two people with a little bit of African but about 10 others without it.It is completely absent in the German and the Irish population.
No, there aren't any programs that are reliable that can tell you how much Basque, Galician, Andalusian, Mayan, or Huichol DNA you have. Those populations would have to be tested as well as many other populations in Spain and Mexico and then a company would have to implement them into a calculator. It is extremely expensive to get those reference samples and there aren't enough people willing to spend enough to make up for that cost.
Armando
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Thank you Armando,
i don't really know much about DNA but i'm interested in knowing as much as i can. and thank you for the science information, i will sign up and read all the information.
Danny C. Alonso
DNA Senegales and Other parts
Hello everyone,
I'd like to add to this discussion. So my mother is a Torres from Michoacan, and growing up she'd always asserted her European lineage as she was a light skinned Mexican, so too was her mother.
About 2 years ago I got her ethnic composition done, and to our collective surprise she has 6% African from Nigeria and Cameroon, very close to Congo. She is also 7% East Asian and 7% Middle Eastern from Nigeria. Finally, 23% is Indian. Her European is 57%.
So I next tested her Mitochondrial DNA and that came back with her female line coming from a European Haplo Group - so it would turn out that all that mixing came from mother and fathers among her paternal lines.
I have not begun to dig that deep into the records but I would be thrilled to find out who these recent ancestors were.
Gil