Hello everyone.
MY name is Piero Ornelas, and I am tracing my family's surname to, and before it was present in San De Los Lagos. (Referred to after this, as "SJDLL) The relatives I am positive about are as follows.
This is my first attempt at this research, and I am concerned that with one mistake, I may get everything before my great grandfather wrong, and I have heard that there are several "Ornelas" families in SJDLL, who were all related. If you have any information or corrections I would welcome them! thanks!
I am very interested in if this nis true that much of our Surname is actually Portuguese and not Spanish of origin. I was surprised!
Any help or clarifications great appreciated! Thanks!
My line:
My Father, Ralph Ornelas, d.1962
My grandfather, Mario Ornelas born San Juan de los lagos
b. January 19, 1909. d. march 27, 2004, in Monterey Park, California, at the age of 95.
My great-grandfather, Apolinar Ornelas
b. around 1880, In or near San Juan De Los lagos, (baptized on July 29, 1877 in SJDLL)
My Great-Great grabdfather Florencio Ornelas
b. 1872 in Manuel Ojinaga, Chihuahua
My Great-great-great grandfather Bernardo Ornelas baptized on February 17, 1722, in SJDLL
My Great-great-great-great Grandmother Dorotea De Ornelas
born about 1695, in SJDLL
My Great-great-great-great-great grandfather Andres De Ornelas
b. 1636 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco,
My great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather, Alvaro VI Albares de Ornellas y Hurtado de Mendosa
b. 1598 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico
My great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather Alvaro V Albares deOrnellas
b. 1561, in Canico, Ihlas Madeiras, Portugal
my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great--great grandfather, Joao De Ornelas
b. 1530 in Caniço, Madeira, Portugal.
Ornelas: Origin of Name
Ornelas = Fornelas, from the province of Lugo,
Variations = Ornellas, Dornellas, D'Ornellas, Fornell, Fornellas, Fornells, Fornieles.
The Province of Lugo in North Western Spain (autonomous region of Galicia)is above Portugal buffered by the province of Orense, which borders Portugal.
The native language is Galician, a distant relative of Portuguese.
Being so close, people with this last name probably traveled back and forth from Lugo to Portugal.
Wow! You guys are great! Thank you!
this is exciting for me, a newbie to actually find people who talk about this stuff.
yes, I had heard that It was was a place near Lugo, Santa Comba de Fornelas is a parish and village in the municipality of Puebla del Brollon (A Pobra do Brollon), in the province of Lugo, Spain. (From wikipedia)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/27334+Fornelas,+Lugo,+Spain/@42.56501…
I researched as much as I could, including cold calling and having others call the auto body shop there, to find out more about the exact location (mechanics always seem to know something. At least in the detective movies they are good for info)
Over the years I have heard all the following meanings as well.
(Some of these come from the dreaded "Heraldly and coat of arms" sites that make up stuff all the time)
- From the ancient Roman (Latin) 'orne' meaning eagle
- From the Spanish word "Horno" indicating it has something to do with baking or blacksmithing
- From the Italian "ORNELLA" (A flowering ash tree)
However jlblonde 's entry from Gutierre Tibon's book "Diccionario Etimologico Comparado de los Apellidos Espanoles, Hispanoamericanos y Filipinos" seems to most legitimate I have ever heard.
Horn! My family's names means "horn"? I wonder what significance it has? Like why did was that name used there?
gpf13 : Thank you so much for the correction. I just started using Ancestry.com last week, and their features including ""ancestry hints" "review" and then "add to family profile" was something that confused me a little, and I probably made a lot of mistakes. doesn't hep that I am a little dyslexic, and bad with numbers. with so many different spellings, all I had to go on what clues like the names of spouses and children do distinguish between the different Ornelas'
Maybe I should just wipe my whole tree clean before my great grandfather, and start over.
I am just not sure how connect the ancestors that came before my great grandfather.
Words cannot express the gratitude I have for all of you, and the help you have provided me here.
Thanks!
Piero Andres Patrice Ornelas,
Oakland, Ca.
2016
Ornelas: Origin of Name
Hi,
According to Gutierre Tibon's book "Diccionario Etimologico Comparado de los Apellidos Espanoles, Hispanoamericanos y Filipinos", which I have in my modest library, he states that:
Ornelas: Fornelas, from the province of Lugo, latin fornus, "Horn".
Variations: Ornellas, Dornellas, D'Ornellas, Fornell, Fornellas, Fornells, Fornieles.
My 2 cents:
The Province of Lugo in North Western Spain (autonomous region of Galicia)is above Portugal buffered by the province of Orense, which borders Portugal.
The native language is Galician, a distant relative of Portuguese.
Being so close, people with this last name probably traveled back and forth from Lugo to Portugal.
Looking for information on
I too descend from your great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather, Alvaro VI Albares de Ornellas y Hurtado de Mendosa
b. 1598 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico. Can you provide sources as to his father and grandfather. I haven't studied this family in a long time and don't have my notes on this family in I front of me but would like to see source to Joao de Ornelas. B.1530.
Thanks,
R.A.Ricci
Game changer
I may have to revise all that, having gotten better information from George Fulton.
I'll keep you posted!
thanks.
P
Ornelas Inconsistencies
Piero
Apolinar's birthdate "around 1880" is inconsistent the stated baptism date. The baptismal date is typically a few days after the birth, sometimes the same day.
If the birthdate for Florencio is correct, he cannot be Apolinar's father. The baptismal record for Apolinar has been extracted at Family Search (there is a link to the image), however it gives the father as Ricardo Ornelas and grandfather as Eulogio Ornelas.
I checked the Family Search catalog for San Juan de los Lagos, and the baptisms up to the late 1880s have been extracted. Marriages, except for the first two films (up to 1795) , have also been extracted. In some cases the images are linked to the index.
The civil records for Mexico (after 1857) have generally been indexed (with linked images) at ancestry.com. You can use this at many public libraries, or at any Family History center.
George Fulton
Premium Ancestry upgrade
OK. I did it an got Ancestry's "premium" global search service, and am looking above the family tree at the point where the time lines didn't match up as George Fulton pointed out.
Now I am at Eulogio Ornelas, and looking for his father and grandfather as well. I saw some hints that the surname was actually carried and passed down by one of my great grandmothers, as well.
I also considered that there might already be an existing family tree, that my line connects to at some point?
All hints and help appreciated.
Piero Ornelas.
Eulogio Ornelas
Piero
The civil records, in principle, start in 1857; however, for many towns the first records start a little later. For the small towns, the starting dates are often later. Initially not all births, marriages, and deaths were recorded, so there will be gaps. You will have some people for which all the church records exist, and some not. Same with the civil records.
For example, your ancestor Ricardo Ornelas has a baptismal record, but he was born too soon for a civil birth record. He may have siblings in the civil birth records. You can search for them by searching with just the parents names. The baptismal record names parents, of course, and both the paternal and maternal grandparents.
The baptismal record will sometimes give the parents ages. Ages aren't always correct, but you can still estimate their year of birth.
I estimate Ricardo's father, Eulogio, was born about 1830, plus or minus a couple of years. From this estimate you can get an estimate for the marriage of Eulogio's parents, Cipriano Ornelas and Petra Macias, which may have been in the 1820s or before.
Family Search lists a number of baptisms for children of Eulogio and Cresencia. There is value in looking at all of the records, not just the indexes. This will tell you the community (rancho or hacienda) where the were born.
I did not see a marriage record for Eulogio and Cresencia. That doesn't mean there isn't one. It may be worthwhile looking at the matrimonial investigations. Sometimes there will be a matrimonial investigate and no marriage. At what date do you start looking. You might think 9 months before the first child, but couples sometimes had children "soon" after marriage, some were married after the first or second child was born. The baptismal records can give a clue. "Hijo legitimate" implies they were married first. The matrimonial investigation was usually done a few weeks prior to the wedding. In the absence of a marriage date I would look a couple of years prior to the first known child.
I did not see baptismal records for children of Cipriano and Petra. Perhaps they were not from San Juan de los Lagos. If an 1830 birthdate for Eulogio is a good estimate, then his parents should have been married after abt 1800. If this is a poor estimate, and he was born earlier, his parents could have been married in the 1790s, and these records have not been indexed, which means looking through the film page by page. I would start with the end of the last unindexed and work toward the beginning.
In an earlier post you have Florencio Ornelas from Chihuahua. I could not place him anywhere. Do you have evidence thT places him in the family?
Ancestry has an option to search family trees. You get to this from the first search screen, and there are some check boxes for the type of records to search. Uncheck all except family trees. Unfortunately posted family trees are notorious for not providing sources, or giving sources that cannot be verified. Use these with care.
Good luck,
George Fulton
Thank you!
Hi George.
No, as per your information I removed Florencio, and all of his suspected relatives, after getting your new information, and am researching the names Petra Macias, and Cipriano Ornelas. IN several of these records it states that the names are actually Cipriano Macias, and Petra Ornelas, with some having the last name for both of them, as Alviso.
Then to make things even more interesting, Eulogio's son's wife, has four separater spellings for her name. (Phew!) Ladislada Garcia, María Ladislar, and MA.Ladislao Garcia.
Still on the case.
do you do this professionally? I was considering getting someone more adept that this than I.
Thanks again.
Piero
Ornelas
Piero
I, like the majority of Nuestros Ranchos members, am not a professional genealogist, although I have been doing this for quite a number of years.
I am glad to provide whatever help I can through the website.
What you are seeing for your ancestor Maria Ladislada Garcia is not uncommon.
As you spend more time, and get more experience, the process will get easier. In my opinion, the results are more satisfying if you find your ancestors your self. Of course, if you life is very busy with work, or school, and family - the kids take a lot of time - it can be hard to devote the time you would like. While I have never hired a professional, I think it can be expensive. Perhaps someone in the forum has some experience in this regard.
Please feel free to pose any questions here, and we can try to help.
George Fulton
Appreciated.
It's a little daunting for me, a bona fide dyslexic ADHD, who was dropped on his head as a baby. (lol)
I guess I am a little intimidated by the guesswork, as in this example:
http://person.ancestry.com/tree/104080020/person/120038945479/facts
There are two separate dates with a 9-year gap, which are both not as the baptism date for Eulogio Ornelas. which one do I pick?
I understand the satisfaction thing, but it could be a year before I really get this methodology, and I'd really just like to know who all my ancestors are, without getting migraines looking at this screen.
I am truly grateful for your help, and if you, or anyone, could easily or without any inconvenience to, figure out how far back my ancestors go and help me make sure my tree is accurate, I'd be eternally grateful, and send you a $100 yogurt rewards card. (Just kidding, but I'd definitely pay if it was needed)
Thanks again.
P
George Fulton.
Hi. Been doing some sleuthing, and I got to cipraino ornelas, but establishing who he is and when he was born, is still a little tricky. Since His son, Eulogio was born in 1833, I postulated that his father would be in between 30 and 50, and so I looked for Cpiriano Ornelas" in the late 1700's. As is often the case whole looking through these records, I found two that were in many ways remarkably similar.
Jose Cipriano Ornelas #1 goo.gl/MuQOz3
b.4 jul. 1798. Baptism Place: Zapotlan El Grande,Ciudad Guzman,Jalisco,Mexico
Jose Cipriano Ornelas #2 goo.gl/d5V9SW
b. 26 sep. 1793. Baptism Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas, Mexico
If you will please check the links, (they go to ancestry.com pages, but the original links were way too long) here is a classic example. Two separate "Ciprianos" born within ten years of one another both of whom had Fathers named Jose, and Mothers Named maria.
As a tip, when confronted with this kind of parallel, which one do you go with? I don't wnt to do what I originally did and just "add" people to my family tree, because you can see where that got me. Lol.
thanks again for your help.
Piero
Two Ciprianos
Piero
I sent you an email privately, but just in case you did not receive it, I am planning on going to the library this week and will check these two out.
In a case like this, we need something to tie the "right" Ciprinano to your line. People certainly did move around in this time period, but there are also families that stayed in the same place for generations. Similarity of names is actually a rather weak link.
George
Cipriano Ornelas
Piero
While looking up Cipriano Ornelas, I found another person with this name: Jose Cipriano de la Trinidad Ornelas baptized 23 Sep 1799, in San Juan de los Lagos. What intrigued me about this record is that he was born in Paso Hondo, the town/rancho/hacienda that your Ornelas family is from. In addition to the parents, the record also named the grandparents, which typically did not start until a little later. His parents are Jose Regino Ornelas and Rosa Munoz. The grandparents are George de Ornelas and Manuela Olivares, and Ygnacio Munoz and Maria de la Sencion Marquez. FHL film 220649, image 427
I then found a marriage record for Cipriano Hornelas and Petra Macias 9 Feb 1831, San Juan de los Lagos. He was from
Paso Hondo. Parents are Regino Hornelas / Rosa Macias and Miguel Macias / Juana Maria Ramirez. FHL film 220710, image 196
Hornelas and Ornelas are the same name. Adding an H to words that are not spelled that way was not uncommon.
The marriage record and the baptismal record are consistent, thus we have identified the right Ciprinao, and pushed your Ornelas ancestry back two more generations.
What is important is to work from what we know, going back in time. The other Cipriano Ornelas's you found were interesting, but the info we had did not lead to the towns for those records, which made them unlikely (but still worth keeping note of). The key today was Cipriano's marriage record.
I would estimate that Jose Regino was born in the mid-1770s, and his father George was, perhaps, born in the 1740s or 1750s.
I'll continue to look at your family and keep you posted!
George Fulton
Also!
Also, I am looking for a man named Steven Francisco Hernàndez-Lòpez, wjho is also a part of the Nueva Galicia society, and somosprimos.com and who is an expert in the ORNELAS SURNAME.
Thanks!