Lope Ruiz de Esparza 'el Menor' is the 3rd cousin of St. Francisco Javier de Jasso
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1). Sancho Ruiz de Esparza, alcalde de la Corte Mayor de Navarra, his wife, Juana Zariquegui are the parents of Simon Ruiz de Esparza. Simon has a sister named Catalina Ruiz de Esparza that is the ancestor of Saint Francisco Javier (Jasso). See her line at the bottom of the page. This Catalina Ruiz de Esparza is not the same Catalina Ruiz de Esparza that had an affair and a daughter with King Charles II.
2). Simon Ruiz de Esparza b. Before 1495 and Graciana Huici (Vici) are the parents of Martin Ruiz de Esparza.
3). Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici (Vici), señor del palacio de Esparza (Galar), vecino de Pamplona and Maria de Espinosa (Spinosa) are the parents of Lope Ruiz de Esparza. Martin also has a son named Pedro Ruiz de Esparza.
We have lawsuits from Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici (Vici) against cousins and possibly in laws that are using the family name without his permission. His brothers, Lope and Pedro also sue distant cousins. Martin and his sons hold the prestigious titles of señor de Los palacios de Estrada and are suing and asking the court to defend their rights.
4). Lope Ruiz de Esparza (el mayor or el viejo) abogado de las Audiencias Reales, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui vecino de Pamplona and Ana Diez de Eguino are not married. They have a (natural) son named Lope Ruiz de Esparza.
5) Lope Ruiz de Esparza (el menor) ( b.1569 d.14 Aug 1651 in Mexico, Distrito Federal) married in 1594 to Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma, a descendant of Moctezuma II. Lope has a brother named Capitan Andres Ruiz de Esparza (b.1542) that came to Mexico before Lope. There is a third brother named Pedro Ruiz de Esparza that stayed in Spain. I personally read a primary source document dated 1595 that identified Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma as a granddaughter (though it should have said Great granddaughter.)
Lope came over as a "personal assistant"(criado) to a descendant of King Charles III named Enrique de Mauleòn. Lope's ancestor Rodrigo was in the service Kings Charles II and King Charles III. Even though Lope Ruiz de Esparza is the son of a nobleman, he still was in the service of descendant of Charles III, through the Nabarro Enriquez Lacarra line. through another line, Enrique Mauleón descends from King Alfonso XI de Castilla. Enrique de Mauleòn is also a distant relative some of the founding families of Nueva Galicia through his ancestor named Carlos Arellano de Luna.
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1). Sancho Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Zariquegui are the parents of Simon Ruiz de Esparza and Catalina Ruiz de Esparza that is the ancestor of Saint Francisco Javier (Jasso).
2). Catalina Ruiz de Esparza married in 1403 to Juan Antondo y Beteu, Señor de Adocin.
3). Gullelma (Guillerma) Atondo y Ruiz de Esparzamarries Arnaldo (Arnalt, Artel) Perez (Periz) de Jasso, Señor de Idocin (Adocin).
4). Juan Perez de Jasso y Atondo married to Maria de Azipilicuela y Aznar(iz), Señor de Javier.
5). San Francisco Javier aka Saint Francisco Jasso de Javier y Azpilicuela.
Other Ruiz de Esparza tidbits:
The other Catalina Ruiz de Esparza, is a daughter of Juan Periz de Esparza, alcalde de la corte de Navarra y consejero del Rey. She had a daughter named Juana, born by January 1379, from her relationship with King Charles II. This Catalina married in 1397 to Juan de Bearne, Baron de Beortegui. After
Another member of the Ruiz de Esparza family, Maria Miguel Ruiz de Esparza, (daughter of Miguel Ruiz de Esparza) has a relationship with King Charles III. They have a son named Lancelot that is born in April of 1386.
One of Lope Ruiz de Esparza's brothers was in the Americas prior to Lope's arrival in 1593. This brother, Capitan Andres Ruiz de Esparza traveled to Costa Rica where it has been reported that was named Teniente de Gobernador de la ciudad del espiritú santo. He later returned to Mexico City where he left descendants. Some of his descendants later moved into los altos de Jalisco, though the vast majority of the Esparzas in Jalisco descend from Lope Ruiz de Esparza "el Menor".
I have more information in my book about the Ruiz de Esparza family
Source: Mygenes2000 by Rick A. Ricci
(John Schmal, Guillermo 'Bill' Figueroa, Mariano Gonzalez Leal, Mary Lou Mantagna, George Fulton, Jaime Holcombe and others have contributed to my research on the Ruiz de Esparza family)
Lope Ruiz de Esparza 'el
I have seen numerous timelines on Maria Diaz de Eguinoa that don't make sense now that I have more information on the relationship. I believe that one reason that people have not been able to find more information on her is because they have been looking in the wrong places and wrong dates for her. Unfortunately, the records that should have more information on her are not digitized so a trip to Spain would be necessary to see these records.
A lawsuit from Pedro Ruiz de Esparza against his father clearly identified Lope el menor as his half brother. He files a lawsuit claiming that his father gave Lope el menor assets that had already been given to Pedro. This lawsuit does not mention Andres.
The brother, Andres, that came to the Americas before Lope is not a son of Maria Diaz de Eguinoa. Lope el menor does have a younger full brother that works for their half brother Pedro Ruiz de Esparza. So Lope Ruiz de Esparza "el viejo" had at least four sons.
Source: mygenes2000, Rick A. Ricci
Eguino, Eguiño, Egino
Hola a todos:
Estuve buscando el apellido Eguinoa en distintas fuentes sin suerte, pero el de Eguino o Eguiño si lo encontré:
Es patronímico de una pequeña población cerca de Vitoria-Gasteiz que actualmente se llama Egino y pertenece a Álava.
La familia Eguino (algunas veces llamada Eguiño) era una familia de contadores al servicio del Rey Carlos I. Posteriormente administraron las empresas marítimas de la corona. Hay multitud de expedientes en el portal pares buscando la palabra Eguino, pudiendo dividirla por siglos ya que son varios los personajes de dicha familia.
El apellido Diez de Eguino no lo he encontrado como tal.
Saludos
Marcelina
Eguino, Eguiño, Egino
Hola Marcelina,
Va ser dificil seguir la linea de Los Diaz de Eguinoa por que era familia de conversos.
Gracias por la informacíon,
Ricardo
Latest timeline as of Oct 8, 2016
The changes in time line include Lope Ruiz de Esparza el viejo's date of birth who we now now was born in 1519 as he is fifteen years old going on 16 in 1535.
We now know Sancho Ruiz de Esparzas grandfather but do not have Sancho's father's name, but because of his education and career path we can state that he has a much higher probability of being the son of a certain brother. Sancho has a brother named Johan de Esparza.
Sancho Ruiz de Esparza. b Abt 1355 died before 1440 his wife dies in 1440 and she identified as a widow in her death record.
1.1) Sister Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza y Zariquiegu b. circa 1395 m. 18/April/1413 (daughter of Sancho, ancestor of St Francis Xavier aka San Francisco Javier de Jasso. The 1413 marriage date is the correct date.
1.2). Sister Juana Ruiz de Esparza (daughter of Sancho)
1.3). Ximon (Simon) Ruiz de Esparza y Zariquiegui born circa 1415 d. Before March1490 (son of Sancho)
1.2.1) Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici b. Abt 1467 (son of Simon) (two marriages at least)
Martin is still alive in 1547, writes his will (Testament) in 1543) and dies before 1560
1.2.1.1) Lope Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa "El viejo" B. Abt 1519 , still alive in 1597 (son of Martin)(at least two relationships)
Six children from a marriage of el viejo
Andres Ruiz de Esparza b. 1541. I believe Andres is a half brother of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el menor, Mariano Gonzalez Leal has them as both having the same mother but there is 27 years between their births)
Son Lope Ruiz de Esparza b. 1569 "el menor"
A daughter named Maria Ruiz de Esparza y Diez de Eguino
Lope has a "full" younger brother, so el viejo has at least four sons.
From a marriage:
The son born after the four months of marriage is Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, attorney,(legitimate heir)
Lope had at least six children from his marriage. The eldest was the aforementioned Pedro Ruiz de Esparza. A daughter by the name of Maria Ruiz de Esparza y Capparosa had three marriages.
Note:
(Before making this family tree, the older ages of the men having their sons had me consider that there are two Martin Ruiz de Esparzas and not one Martin Ruiz de Esparza with two marriages. Sometimes a double surname is carried over, so I thought that there was a possibility of two Martin Ruiz de Esparzas Huici, one the son of the other. This would help alleviate the concerns over so many men having their sons in an older age, mid to late 50's. But further research confirms the men and the dates assigned to them so there is only one Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici.
Rick A ricci
Lope Ruiz de Esparza el Mayor had at least 3 relationships.
Lope Ruiz de Esparza (el mayor or el viejo) abogado de las Audiencias Reales, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui vecino de Pamplona tuvo por lo menos tres hijos y una hija. Tambien tuvo por lo menos tres mujeres (creo que por lo menos dos de las relatiónes resultaron en matrimonios). El todavia estaba vivo en Diciembre de 1597. No se si cada hijo tuvo diferente madre. Todavia no he leido la Prueba de Hidaguia, pero creo que este documento alamejor tiene mas informacíon que nos dira si Andres y Lope tuvieron diferentes
madres. Pedro si es hijo de diferente madre.
Lope Ruiz de Esparza (el mayor or el viejo) abogado de las Audiencias Reales, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui vecino de Pamplona born circa 1513 had at least three sons and one daughter. He also had at least three relationships/marriages as three woman have been identified as his "mujer". There is a strong possibly that at least two of the relationships ended in marriage. Lope is still alive in December of 1597. I am not sure if each child had a different mother. I have not read all the pages of the hidalguia yet, but I hope it has information telling us whether Andres and Lope had the same mother. Pedro had a different mother.
The Ruiz de Esparza family for two hundred years were known as legal experts and successful businessman. Sancho was an specialist in certain types of documents. Many of his descendants became attorneys. They loved to litigate, even amongst family.
I will have more information in the book that I am writing. I thought that I should disclose that Lope had multiple "wives", and that all the other men in the timeline that I presented have only one wife in the records that I have seen.
Thanks,
R.A.Ricci
Navarra Archives
The Navarra archives has indexed some of their records - you can search the archives at www.navarra.es
If you search for "Ruiz de Esparza" (use the quotation marks for an exact search), you will get 116 document summaries. The documents themselves are not available for download. These are a few facts gleaned from the search
1535 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa (spouse and parents not named in this case)
1536 - Martin Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Larrasaona, his wife
1537 - Maria de Larrasoana, wife of Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici
1558 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza, and Maria de Caparrosa, his wife, and Anton Marcilla de Caparrosa & Juana Cruzat, his wife, concerning a dowry (Maria's?)
1584 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza against Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Caparrosa, concerning a dowery (is Maria a daughter?)
1591 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Caparrosa, his wife
1595 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Isabel de Ascaraga, his wife
1595 - Pedro Ruiz de Esparza y Zariquiegui, heir of Lope Ruiz de Esparza (in 1568 Pedro is called his son) His mother is not discernible from the available info.
1597 - Licenciado Ruiz de Esparza (first name not given), names Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Esparza, "sus padres"
Sparse info is provided for each case. There are other records which imply other relationships with the Ruiz de Esparza family.
From other sources we know the parents of Lope Ruiz de Esparza who came to Aguascalientes. He came to Mexico single, in 1593. His mother is not named in these Navarra court records.
Unfortunately, none of the court records are presently available for down load (some are apparently quite long, hundreds of pages). Once these records become available it should be possible to add more information about this family.
George Fulton
Navarra Archives
Dear George,
I had seen some of these records previously and that is how I found two "mujer de Lope Ruiz de Esparza."
Lope Ruiz de Esparza's wife Maria Capparrosa
Lope Ruiz de Esparza's wife, Isabel de Ascarraga y Leache, hija del licenciado Azcarraga, abogado de las Audiencias Reales, e Isabel de Leache
What I didn't have was Maria de Larrasoana, wife of Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici. This means that Martin was married twice as his first wife was surnamed Espinosa.
These records also identified that besides his three sons, Lope el Mayor, has at least one daughter, Maria Ruiz de Esparza. It is unclear if she is the same Maria Ruiz de Esparza that has multiple marriages. Only one marriage is a certainty right now in my records. He may have more children.
Thanks,
Rick A Ricci
Navarra Archives
Unfortunately, from the brief discription of the cases very little info is forth coming. what I did discover about the archive is that if a record has been digitized there will be an icon as part of the discription, but this is lacking on all the court cases.
George
New timeline as of the fourth of October, 2016
It is unfortunate for us that we can't access these court cases right now. The summaries of these court cases have given us enough information, that when added to the information that we already possess, we can deduce that many of these court cases involve disputes over hereditary rights among distant cousins so the cases should contain family trees to show how these distant cousins are related.
We must redo the Ruiz de Esparza timeline, and not just because of the possibility of Cathalinas marriage date. Sancho Ruiz de Esparza was already working in an official capacity for the court on the sixth of December 1380. So far, this is the earliest record we have of him. I don't believe that he was working at five so we need to adjust his birthdate from 1375 to about 1360. This new birthdate for Sancho Ruiz de Esparza now allows an earlier birthdate for Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza so the disputed marriage dates are no longer a problem.
I researched the family tree of the other Cathatlina Ruiz de Esparza to see if there is a connection between the two. I haven't found a connection yet, but did discover that the other Cathatlina Ruiz de Esparza is a couple of decades older. I also have been able to find some interesting information on this family.
1) Sancho Ruiz de Esparza. b Abt 1360
1.1) Sister Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza y Zariquiegu b.1385/98 m.1403 or 1413 (daughter of Sancho, ancestor of St Francis Xavier aka San Francisco Javier de Jasso.
1.2) Simon Ruiz de Esparza y Zariquiegui born circa 1415, d. Before March1490 (son of Sancho)
1.2.1) Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici b. Abt 1465 (son of Simon) (two marriages at least)
Martin is still alive in 1547
1.2.1.1) Lope Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa "El viejo" B. Abt 1513, still alive in 1597 (son of Martin)(at least three relationships)
Three sons and one daughter of el viejo
Andres Ruiz de Esparza b. 1541
Son Lope Ruiz de Esparza b. 1569 "el menor"
Son, (legitimate heir) Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, attorney, b. ?
Daughter Maria Ruiz de Estrada born ?
Esparza or Estrada?
Is the daughter Maria Ruiz de Esparza or Maria Ruiz de Estrada? I do not find a "Ruiz de Estrada" in the Navarra archive index. I find the following:
1564 - Juan de Lazcano y Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su mujer,
1568 - Juan de Lazcano, viudo de Maria Ruiz de Esparza,
1572 - Pedro, Isabel, Maria y Ana de Roncesvalles y Ruiz de Esparza, hijos y herederos de Miguel de Roncesvalles y Maria Ruiz de Esparza
1576 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda de Miguel de Roncesvalles
1576 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda y usufructuaria de Miguel de Roncesvalles,
1578 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda de Lopez de Lugo, oidor del Consejo Real, y mujer de Sebastian de Ibero
1579 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza, vecino de Pamplona, contra los acreedores de Pedro Lopez de Lugo, su yerno, ex oidor del Consejo Real, sobre recibir informacion relativa a pago de un censo por 1.500 ducados de la dote de Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su mujer.
1584 - Sebastian Ibero y Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su mujer
1597 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, mujer de Juan Bautista Ferrer de Mora, viuda de Sebastian de Ibero
This suggests that there are at least two Maria de Esparzas; I would not be surprised if there were more. The limited info in the index does not allow us to make a determination.
The indexed records that I am seeing are only in the 1500s.
George Fulton
Maria Ruiz de Esparza. Not Estrada
Dear George,
Sorry for posting Estrada instead of Esparza. I have been working on both lines in the past month. I found new information on the Estradas and I have sometimes written Estrada when I meant Esparza in other posts also. I will post my new information on the Estradas soon. I'm still in shock at what I found on the Estrada. There is a big disagreement among genealogists on this Estrada line. I had studied both sides of the evidence, and I had decided that one side had provided primary evidence so I had sided with them. I recently found out that although it was considered primary evidence, the primary evidence was an attempt to hide an illegitimacy. It turns out that the other side was right all along and that the Estrada in question actually was the illegitimate son of a king.
There are three Maria Ruiz de Esparza in the lawsuits you mentioned. The first Maria Ruiz de Esparza that is married to Juan Lozcano and she cannot be the same person as any of the other Maria Ruiz de Esparzas. This first Maria Ruiz de Esparza has been identified as a sister of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and cannot be the same person identified as the third Maria Ruiz de Esparza. The second Maria Ruiz de Esparza has been positively identified as a daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el viejo with three husbands. The third Maria Ruiz de Esparza has a very high probability of being a daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el viejo when the information given in the summaries of three legal cases are combined. Since she is most likely his daughter, then we are left with Lope Ruiz de Esparza having a sister named Maria Ruiz de Esparza and two daughters named Maria Ruiz de Esparza, or two are the same person and she has four marriages.
P
The first Maria Ruiz de Esparza:
The Maria Ruiz de Esparza married to Juan Lascano dies before 1568 as he is named a widower in 1568 so she cannot be the same person as the Maria Ruiz de Esparza that has multiple marriages. She is identified as the or sister of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el viejo in a legal case brought against Juan Lascano by Lope Ruiz de Esparza and his son Pedro Ruiz de Esparza. It says sister in the document so I assumed sister of Lope Ruiz de Esparza as he is the first person named in the record.
Here is the evidence that she is his sister:
"Lope Ruiz de Esparza, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui, y Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, su hijo, abogado de las Audiencias Reales, vecinos de Pamplona, contra Carlos de Ciriza, abogado de los Tribunales Reales, Juan de Lazcano, viudo de Maria Ruiz de Esparza, y otros, vecinos de Pamplona, Gazolaz y Aldaba, sobre restitucion de 2 viñas, una de 8 peonadas en el termino de Donapea y otra de 5 peonadas en el termino de Cascallueta, de la dote de Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su hermana."
I could positively identify the second Maria Ruiz de Esparza as his daughter as she calls him her father when she is suing him.
There are many lawsuits that identify her and her three husbands. Three husbands are positively identified.
For the second Maria Ruiz de Esparza:
In the first lawsuit : 1578 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda de Lopez de Lugo, oidor del Consejo Real, y mujer de Sebastian de Ibero
Maria Ruiz de Esparza had a prior marriage to Pedro Lopez de Lugo. She becomes a widow when Lopez de Lugo passes away. Once she is a widow she marries Sebastian de Ibero. She then sues her father, Lope Ruiz de Esparza.
Here is the summary:
Contenido:Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda de Lopez de Lugo, oidor del Consejo Real, y mujer de Sebastian de Ibero, vecinos de Pamplona, contra Lope Ruiz de Esparza, su padre, vecino de Pamplona, sobre pago de 625 ducados resto de los 2.000 ducados de dote.
In this second case, Lope Ruiz de Esparza identifies Pedro Lopez de Lugo as his "yerno" son -in-law. Then it identifies Maria Ruiz de Esparza as his wife. This is a case involves the estate of Pedro Lopez de Lugo since he has already passed away.
1579 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza, vecino de Pamplona, contra los acreedores de Pedro Lopez de Lugo, su yerno, ex oidor del Consejo Real, sobre recibir informacion relativa a pago de un censo por 1.500 ducados de la dote de Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su mujer.
Maria and her second husband are also involved in this third case: 1584 - Sebastian Ibero y Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su mujer.
In the fourth and last case, Maria Ruiz de Esparza is identified as a widow from her second husband, and marries for a third time. To Juan Bautista Ferrer de Mora. It seems that she was left a rich widow from her first husband so she is marrying material for gold seekers.
1597 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, mujer de Juan Bautista Ferrer de Mora, viuda de Sebastian de Ibero
There is a third Maria Ruiz de Esparza that was the widow of Miguel de Roncesvalle.
In a case in 1577
Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda Miguel de Roncesvalles, vecina de Pamplona, contra Lope Ruiz de Esparza, vecino de Pamplona, sobre ejecucion por 30 ducados de un prestamo dado por Miguel de Roncesvalles. This summary of this case does not states the relationship between Maria Ruiz de Esparza and Lope Ruiz de Esparza, but, taken in conjunction with another case where Miguel Roncesvalles and Lope Ruiz de Esparza are together named as defendants in the case we may deduce that they are closely related. There is a third legal cases where children of Miguel and Maria are identified.
Pedro de Salinas, alguacil de la Real Corte, vecino de Pamplona, contra Miguel de Roncesvalles y Lope Ruiz de Esparza, su fiador, mercader, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui, vecinos de Pamplona, sobre ejecucion de bienes por 600 ducados y 6 reales de la venta de 367 arrobas de lana.
Pedro Isabel, Maria y Ana de Roncesvalles y Ruiz de Esparza, hijos y herederos de Miguel de Roncesvalles y Maria Ruiz de Esparza, vecinos de Pamplona, contra Miguel de Aoiz, abogado de las Audiencias Reales, y Berenguer de Aoiz, rematante, vecinos de Pamplona, sobre nulidad de ejecucion de una casa y viña de 20 peonadas en Ezcaba por 14 ducados de redito
So the information looks like this:
A Maria Ruiz de Esparza y Larrasoaña is married to Juan Lazcano, she dies and is left a widower. She is identified as a sister of Lope Ruiz de Esparza in a subsequent law suit against Juan Lascano brought by her father and brother. She is a half sister as she is the daughter from Martin Ruiz de Esparzas second marriage to Maria Larrosaoña.
A Maria Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa is married to Miguel De Roncesvalles. They have four children, Pedro, Isabel, Maria, and Ana. This Maria Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa is a daughter of Martin Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Espinosa. Further research has uncover erred that Maria Ruiz de Esparza is identified as Maria Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa, daughter to Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici and Maria de Espinosa.
A Maria Ruiz de Eparza that has been positively identified as a daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el viejo is widowed when her husband Pedro Lopez de Lugo dies. She remarries soon after to Sebastian Ibero. Later Sebastian dies and she is left a widow again. She remarries Juan Bautista Ferrer de Mora.
So these three Maria Ruiz de Esparzas are all different people but related. Two of them being half sisters,
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Correction
In re-reading this post, the death information for Lope Ruiz de Esparza needs to be corrected: he died on Aug 14, 1651, in Aguascalientes, and not Mexico, DF. See Aguascalientes Defunciones 1620-1752, film 299856, image 59.
His wife's death record is two pages later in the same film, where she appears an Ana de Gabai. That record also notes that she was the wife of Lope.
George Fulton
Huici
Thank you Marcelina. I like the euskera spelling better. also i think i may have found the relatives of juana zariquiegui or johanna Lopiz de Zariquiegui. theres a Johan Lopiz de Zariguiegui and a simon Lopiz de Zariquigui mentioned in the 1300s. i cant tell what it says about them but it doesnt look good. it looks like they might be criminals or something.
https://books.google.com/books?id=3LRXAAAAIAAJ&q=%22L%C3%B3piz+de+Zariq…
Danny C. Alonso
Thank you
I would like to thank everyone for their contributions to this research. You never know when the little piece that doesn't seem very important ends up being a vital piece.
Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci
Thank you all for your hard work.
Thanks, R.A. Ricci and others, for all the research and collaborations you have shared with all of us in the group. I have been doing my family research for years, but compared to many of you, I'm still a part time amateur genealogist. Thanks to another member, Austin Perez, I was able to connect my Ursua ancestors to the Ruiz de Esparza family, so this post caught my immediate attention. It will be wonderful to see your research published in the future. Are you waiting until you find who is the father and grandfather of Sancho Ruiz de Esparza before you publish your book?
Saludos
Steve in NC
Thank you all for your hard work.
Dear Steve,
Thanks for your comments. I do have what I believe is a candidate for Sancho's father. He is the only candidate that I have at the moment. I have lots of information but need a little bit more as it would just be speculation if I name him right now. If he is the father then I already have a lot of information to finish a book. If he isn't the father then a lot of what I collected can't be used as it pertains to him.
I don't know when a book will be finished because I have to many projects going on at once. I tell myself I am going to focus on one family, but then in my research I find information that I was looking for to add to a different project. So I move from project to project, adding a piece here and there, moving forward with each project but not at the pace that I would like.
This Ruiz de Esparza line has been jumping for about a month, I keep adding little pieces. It helps that I can use info that I learned from my other projects to move this one along.
George Fulton, Mary Lou Montagna, Danny, and Chris have helped tremendously in this investigation. Guillermo "Bill" Figueroa has helped me in the past with my Aguascalientes families so he also needs to be thanked. John Schmal and Mariano Gonzalez Leal's work have been great resources
Thanks again,
Rick
Timeline
Dear Chris,
I don't want to post a timeline until we check on some information, and am able to provide proof of Sancho Ruiz de Esparza's father, I know that you anxiously await a timeline that makes sense. So am I. We are not wedded to the date 1403 given by a relatively recent article as the date of Cathalinas wedding.
Although the article discovered by George Fulton solved the conundrum of the multiple relationships by establishing that there are two Cathalina Ruiz de Esparzas, with different sets of parents, the article made three colossal errors in the conclusions it makes. I say three colossal mistakes because those are the ones that I found in the first reading. I identified these errors immediately to George.
Multiple readings and closer inspection will undoubtedly uncover more mistakes. So that is why, even though we found some valuable information, we may discard some of their information if it doesn't fit the facts that we have from PRIMARY SOURCES. Through Guillermina's testament we have the family tree from Sancho to Simon to Martin Ruiz de Esparza, that is INDISPUTABLE. Then we have in ascending order, again from PRIMARY SOURCES, the lineage of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el menor, to Lope Ruiz de Esparza el viejo, continuing on to Martin Ruiz de Esparza. We also have the evidence that show that the men in this lineage had their sons in this lineage at what we would call a much older age than average.
I will explain the three colossal errors that I found on the first reading in a much longer post later. One of the colossal mistakes was how he was dating the person I believe has a possibility of being Sancho's father.
Rick A. Ricci
Timeline
Hi Rick,
Yeah, I agree with the genealogy and I have seen occasional instances in my own tree where someone close to 60 marries someone close to 16, it just seems that all of these men would have to be much older than their wives which just seems somewhat unusual. But, it's definitely possible and now it appears probable.
Also, I agree with George that Vici is just an alternate spelling of Huici or vice-versa based on the use of the Latin "V". Although, I guess it could also be based on pronunciation. I'm not sure how 14th century basque pronounced the letter "V". It's possible it was pronounced similar to a "W" although I don't know. I do know that "V" had a different pronunciation in old Castilian, than it does today, so, it's possible 14th century Basque pronunciations were also completely different.
Also, in Nobiliario de Navarra: La casa de los Juániz en la villa de Muruzábal by Francisco Javier Pérez de Rada y Díaz Rubín, Marqués de Jaureguizar, it says, Otorgó escritura de contratos matrimoniales en Pamplona el día 18 de abril de 1413, con Catalina Ruiz de Esparza, hija de Sancho Ruiz de Esparza, alcalde mayor de la Corte de Navara, señor de los Esparza palacios de Esparza y Zariquiegui, so I think that the discrepancy between the dates of 1403 and 1413 for Catalina's marriage are probably also based on a someone reading tres for trese(trece) or vice-versa.
Chris
Revising the Timeline
Thank you Chris for providing the revised date on the marriage. That is fantastic because it provides the timeline a little more wiggle room.
Thanks again,
Rick
Ruiz de esparsa
Mr. Ricci,
since Saint Francis is the 3rd cousin to Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Lope is my 12th great grandfather, does that mean that Saint Francis is my 15th cousin.
and i found this geneology for the esparzas that have sort of a timeline. it has Lope ruiz de Esparza born in 1569 and the other Lope born 1510 and Martin born 1480 and Simon born 1460:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/genealogia-mexico/LVKyd7-B9Ok
Danny C. Alonso
Third cousin 15 times removed
If your 12 great grandfather is a third cousin to someone that makes that person your third cousin 15 times removed.
The latest timeline that I was working on looks like this
1) Sancho Ruiz de Esparza. b Abt 1375
1.1) Daughter of Sancho : Sister Cathalina b.1398 m.1413
1.2) Son of Sancho: Simon Ruiz de Esparza yZariquiegui b.c. 1415 d. Before 1490
1.2.1) Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici b. Abt 1465 (son of Simon)
Martin is still alive in 1547
1.2.1.1) Lope Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa "El viejo" B. Abt 1513 (son of Martin)
Three sons of el viejo
Andres Ruiz de Esparza b. 1541
Son Lope Ruiz de Esparza b. 1569 "el menor"
Son, (legitimate heir) Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, attorney, b. ?
Timeline
Rick,
This is the first timeline that I've seen that actually makes sense.
Chris
Timeline
Dear Chris,
The information that you provided changing the wedding date from 1403 to 1413 provided the last tweak. The timeline is based on Guillerminas will, the marriage record of Cathalina, a lawsuit that Martin is involved in, the birthdate of Andres which pushes his father's date back and the date of the awarding of the coat of arms.
Thanks,
Rick
Zariquiegui
Hi Rick,
I know you mentioned that you were interested in more than just the paternal lines and in the book Rincones de la historia de Navarra, by Florencio Idoate, it says:
Efectivamente, entre los cabezaleros del testamento de Johana Lópiz de Zariquiegui, aparecen su yerno Juan de Athaondo (hoy Atondo), oidor de la Cámara de Comptos y la esposa de éste, Catalina Ruiz de Esparza...
so, Juana de Zariquiegui is also known as Johana Lópiz de Zariquiegui which may be a better clue to her ancestry.
Chris
Zariquiegui
Dear Chris,
That Juana de Zariquiegui is also known as Johana Lópiz de Zariquiegui is fantastic news. I am not sure if I posted this earlier, but I have confirmed that she was the mother of both Cathalina and Simon.
Every clue helps. Sometimes it is the smallest detail is the key that when added to other information. Many times something that doesn't seem that important turns out to be the glue that brings all the pieces together.
I already used this information to find her probable parents. I will get back to you with that information if it checks out.
Thanks again,
Rick
Navarra, Spain Archives
The indexes for the archives for the province of Navarra show that Martin and Lope, el Viejo, were involved in a number of lawsuits that are consistent with the later part of this timeline. Unfortunately, none of these documents are available digitally at this time. Hopefully they will become available like the PARES website.
I suspect at least a couple of these would add significant information to this family tree if we could get copies of them.
The number of documents is an indication of the status of the Ruiz de Esparza family.
The search page for the archive is http://www.navarra.es/home_es/Temas/Turismo+ocio+y+cultura/Archivos/Pro…
George Fulton
Marriage date
Not to be argumentative, but we have two different marriage dates (1403 and 1413) in two different secondary sources, so which is correct? Without seeing the original documents it's hard to decide which is correct. In the source I found, La Familia de Atondo, available on the web, the document seems to be only described and not identified - the repository for it is also not identified. This is a less than ideal situation.
Until resolved, we need to note the discrepancy dates.
George
Marriage date
Dear George,
You make a very valuable point. This last timeline only works with the 1413 wedding date. For the 1403 wedding date we would have to adjust the dates, but only for Sancho and Cathalina. I would leave all the other dates alone as they are based on primary sources.
I received new information last night in a late arrival by UPS, an email from a fellow genealogist who has done work complementary to this work, and two packages today, one in the morning, and another one about fifteen minutes ago. I have a lot to sift through but the pieces have come together. The copy of the hidalguia papers of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el menor are now in my possession.
The article that gave the 1403 date gave valuable information on solving the conundrum of the multiple relationships for Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza by showing that there are two Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza, but much of the other information in that article is erroneous. The author of that article did not know anything about how the different Esparza families were related. The lines that he says are related are known by most genealogists to not be related. There is one piece of evidence that they may be very distant cousins but he didn't present that evidence. The author most likely doesn't even know about that since it is found in the Americas. The Esparza line that he says are not related at all to the Ruiz de Esparza, are actually related not too distantly, fourth cousins. They also made a major error on a date on one of the principal members of the Esparza family. Now a date may not seem like much but it is for this person because he was born thirty years earlier and was a big mover and shaker of the family.
Thanks,
Lope ruis de esparsa
Mr. Ricci
on the Wikitree for Lope ruiz de esparsa here http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ruiz_de_Esparza-4
it says this in Spanish from Mariano gonzalez Leal
En una Ejecutoria de Nobleza del siglo XVI, constante de ciento sesenta paginas en vitela miniada con dos escudos de armas, consta que el genearca novohispano de este linaje fue don Lope Ruiz de Esparza, originario de Pamplona, quien el 27 de Abril de 1595 compareció ante el Alcalde Ordinario de la ciudad de Méjico Rafael de Trejo Carbajal para acreditar su ascendencia: Era hijo de Lope Ruiz de Esparza y de doña Ana Diez de Eguinoa, ambos de Pamplona: el había litigado su hidalguía en Pamplona haciendo constar su señorío sobre los palacios de Esparza y Jáuregui, pleito vencido por sentencia de 23 de Noviembre de 1535. Se dejo constancia de que el segundo Lope, de veintiséis años de edad en 1595, era de estatura mediana, trapado, blanco de rostro, algo rojo de barba y cabello; los ojos tienen algún tanto metidos; sobre la ceja derecha tiene una cicatriz que casi llega hasta el cabo de la ceja y otra cicatriz mas grande que comienza al cabo de la oreja izquierda, por la parte de dentro, hasta la mitad del cuello; es robusto de todos miembros... Obra en el legajo una Ejecutoria de hidalguía dada por el Emperador don Carlos y doña Juana su madre a esta clase y linaje. Estos Ruiz de Esparza, que luego se establecen en Aguascalientes y de allí se ramifican a Teocaltiche, Nochistlán, Tepatitlán, Arandas y otras zonas alteñas, enlazaron con los Romo de Vivar, Gabay, Tiscareño, Escoto-Tovar y otras viejas cepas de la región hasta extenderse de modo tal que no hay familia alteña que no proceda, por una u otra línea de ellos
an i tried to translate it with google and it looks like it talks about his coat of arms and tells how he has red hair and beard and stuff but it also looks like it says that Lope Ruiz de esparza the father is also the lord of the palaces of esparza and zariguegui.
Danny C. Alonso
Lope ruis de esparsa
Dear Danny,
Lope Ruiz de Esparza "el mayor", señor de los palacios de Esparza y Zariquiegui, vecino de Pamplona y residente en Esparza. He was Lord of a small town not far from Pamplona.
The place in Esparza sounds a lot more luxurious than it was. They actually didn't live there. They visited, but they lived in town, Pamplona. They had a really nice residence in Pamplona
I also have the coat of arms, " armas de Ruiz de Esparza"
"Son según ejectoría ganada por Lope Ruiz de Esparza "(el Viejo)", vecino de Pamplona, (I) en campo de oro un lobo atrevesado a un árbol de roble"
I will provide much more information in the book.
Rick A. Ricci
Uitzi y Gabadi
Hola a todos:
El apellido Huici parece ser un toponímico del poblado al norte de Pamplona que actualmente se llama Uitzi.
En los archivos de Navarra se encuentra el siguiente pleito:
1539.- Catalina de Huici vecina de Huici contra Miguel de Huici, vecino de Huici sobre ejecución por 41 florines y 5 groses y el arriendo de la primicia de la iglesia de la Parroquia de Huici (Uitzi).
La familia Huici era propietaria de una gran ferrería, negociación siempre relacionada con la fabricación de armas.
En esos archivos de Navarra que pueden verse en línea hay varios expedientes de la familia Ruiz de Esparza bajo las etiquetas Ruiz de Esparza, Galar, Huici.
Uno que llamó mucho mi atención fue la siguiente:
1525.- Martín Ruiz de Esparza contra Juan de Labayen y María Lizasoain vecinos de Artacoz sobre pago de arriendo del palacio de Zariquegui y su pertenecido.
Un Juan de Labayen casado con Inés de Aguilar viuda del conquistador Gerónimo Flores aparece también en "Andariegos y pobladores de Nueva Galicia" de Miguel Romero de Solís.
También hay varios registros de la familia Gabadi (ningún Gabay o Gabai) y de la familia Jaso, así que podemos estar en presencia de un contingente de personas con lazos de paisanaje previos a la emigración.
También me pareció interesante el siguiente registro:
1543.- Isabel de Peralta y Goñi , viuda de Miguel de Javier, Señor de Javier contra Juan de Esparza y María de Jaso vecinos de Pamplona sobre testamento encomendado de Guillerma de Atondo, abuela de de Miguel de Javier y mujer de Arnaldo Pérez de Jaso.
Saludos
Marcelina
Capitán Lope de Esparza
Hola a todos de nuevo:
Les comparto el siguiente registro del Archivo General de Indias:
INDIFERENTE, 541, L.1, F. 40-V y 42-V
Real Provisión al tesorero general del Reino de Navarra sobre el pago de 250,000 maravedís de salario y quitación al Capitán Lope de Esparza.
Espero les sea útil.
Marcelina
250,000 maravedis
To put this is some perspective, a maravedi was a small copper coin. There were 34 maravedi to the silver real. 1 silver peso is the 8 reals coin (so-called piece of eight or pillar dollar). Thus 250,000 maravedis becomes about 900 pesos.
The wikipedia article "Spanish real" has a good discussion of the coins. The mint in Mexico City was one of the world's major mints during the Spanish colonial period minting coins from silver from the mines of Zacatecas.
George Fulton
Eguinoa
Hola Ricardo:
Encontré una fuente que contiene varios archivos de la familia Eguinoa y cita a un Lope Ruiz de Eguinoa, es un portal de archivos de Álava que se llama www. araba.eus
Podrías asomarte para ver si reconoces a alguno de los personajes que se mencionan en esos expedientes, yo realmente no tenía conocimiento de estas familias.
Por otro lado tengo varios registros de una rama de los Gutierrez Bocanegra que tal vez te sirvan para tu investigación, te espero en el nodo Bocanegra brikwall si quieres que los transcriba allí.
Marcelina
Eguinoa
Hola Marcelina,
No pude encontrar el archivo que mencionas. Por favor ayudame ver lo que encontraste.
Gracias,
Ricardo
Lope Ruiz de Eguinoa
Hola Ricardo:
Mi entrada fue en el buscador Google con las palabras "Lope Ruiz de Eguinoa" me mostró varias opciones. En la parte final de la primera página aparece:
Escritura de cesión de dos censos contra Juan García de Albéniz... en araba.eus
Puedes entrar en ese expediente y luego navegar en el portal araba, en su propio buscador puedes pone la palabra eguinoa y todas las demás que necesites sobre la región de Álava.
Por cierto Álava se dice Araba en euskera.
Suerte
Marcelina
Lope Ruiz de Eguinoa
I have found more information on Lope Ruiz de Esparza. I’m glad that I haven’t finished my book since I have some more interesting stories to add to the names. I also now disagree with Mariano Gonzalez Leals conclusion that some of the Ruiz de Esparza from Jalisco descended from a brother of his. They most likely descend from Lope Ruiz de Esparza
Rick A. Ricci
Ruiz de Esparza
Hola Rick, ¿cómo vas con tu investigación?, ¿para cuándo podemos esperar tu libro?
Saludos desde Coahuila, acá también hay descendientes de Lope.
Bernardo Menchaca
Ruiz de Esparza
Hola Bernardo,
Voy a presentar una parte de mis estudios en un año aquí en California, Estados Unidos.
También he estudiado los Ruiz De Esparza y Romo descendientes en Coahuila aunque todavía no he tenido éxito con el árbol del futbolista Tony Romo.
Tom Flores quien fue jugador y entrenador de los malosos “Raiders” y gano campeonatos de fútbol Americano en Kansas City, Oakland y Los Angeles también desciende de Lope Ruiz De Esparza. Tom Flores tambien es mi pariente por lo Flores De la Torre, Padilla, Ochoa Garibay y otro apellidos. El ganó cuando era jugador en Kansas City, y de entrenador ganó en Oakland y Los Angeles.
Digo que una parte por que todos los libros no están completos. No se si voy a juntar todos los “R” (Romo, Rodriguez De Hijar”, Rodriguez, Ramirez, Reynoso, Renteria, Rueda) o si no más presentó lo Ruiz de Esparza.
Si me mandas tu árbol lo puedo juntar con lo que tengo de Coahuila y apuntar esa rama en mi libro.
Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci
Romo de Coahuila
Buenas tardes Ricardo,
Claro que sí, le voy a dar una revisada a mi árbol y así agregar más personas que sólo tengo en papel y te lo envío.
También traté de ligar a Tony Romo mas no me fue posible. Al director de cine y actor Emilio "El Indio" Fernández si lo tengo en el árbol.
Saludos,
Bernardo Menchaca
Hola Bernardo, Si he
Hola Bernardo,
Si he trabajado sobre el árbol genealógico de Tony Romo. Pero quiero platicar con su familia antes de presentar los resultados. Yo he descubierto muchísimas generaciones.
Feliz Navidad,
Ricardo
Primos en comun
Hola Marcelina,
Isabel de Peralta y Goñi , viuda de Miguel de Javier, Señor de Javier era pariente de Enrique Mauleón, Lope Ruiz de Esparza es "criado" de Enrique Mauleón. Juan de Esparza se llama Juan Ruiz de Esparza y es hermano o hijo de Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici. Enrique Mauleón era pariente de los Jasso, y Lope Ruiz de Esparza era pariente de los Jasso, entonces tenian primos en comun aunque ellos no eran primos.
Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci
Huici
does the part that Marcelina wrote about mean that the name Vici and huici should realy be wrote Uitzi?
Danny C. Alonso
Huici Uitzi
Hola Danny:
La traducción está en los archivos oficiales de Navarra, no es propia
Huici: español
Uitzi: euskera
Además existe congruencia porque se trata de las mismas personas. Intenta entrar al Archivo de Navarra, es muy interesante.
Mauleón se encuentra cerca de Bayona.
Marcelina
St Francis College Library
I forgot to add a GIGANTIC THANK YOU for the St. Francis College Library for deciding to toss out an antique book of theirs because no one had ever checked it out. I have the original library cards still inside showing that no one had ever bothered to check it out. You can also tell from the pages that the book most probably hasn't been opened in 94 years, the age of the book. The pages are very delicate and I will not open the spine all the way to make copies. But the book already has provided valuable information to the Ruiz de Esparza family tree.
I paid peanuts for this book. If it hadn't been available for purchase, I would of had to travel far to see if they could find the book in the few libraries that list it.
So let's hear for St. Francis Colege, Hooray Hooray!!!!
Rick
The Book from St. Francis College
Rick
What is the title? Perhaps it has been digitized on archive.org?
George
Ana Francisca Gabay
Hi Rick,
I think Ana is part of her name. Her defuncion actually only lists her as Ana de Gabay:
En treinta de dicho mes y año se enterró Ana de Gabay, mujer de Lope Ruis de Esparsa. Y por que conste lo firmé
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6S67-8M7
Chris
Ana Francisca Gabay
Dear Chris,
That is great news Chris because I keep seeing her as Francisca in documents. I will go back and add Ana to my records.
Another genealogist that has done extensive research on this family sent me some of his work showing that she is indeed named Ana Francisca Garibai. Although some documents only have Francisca, the evidence is in that she is Ana Francisca.
I have too much information to hold onto, so I have decided to put my other projects away and focus on getting a book done on the Ruiz de Esparza. In my book I will provide the sources for the information. I am separating the Ruiz de Esparza/Gabai Moctezuma chapter from the rest of my giant book. Of course I have to have a couple of chapters on the Romo de Vivar thrown in. And yes, I did find new material yesterday that brought a lol of my research together. So a few months from now I will be addressing the folks here about where to get the book.
The genealogist that sent me the information on Ana Francisca also showed me some of his recent work. It complements what I have discovered so I asked him to combine my book with his information. I intend to finish my book soon so that he can decide soon on whether he wants to combine his material with mine. His part is already finished. The two parts combined would be a nice book. I need to hurry up and do an excellent job so that he will see the benefit of the synergy between two complementary works.
I am sorry that I am going to hold back on the valuable information I have found out about the Ruiz de Esparzas and their cousins with a different, but similar name, but the book will be coming out soon, along with pictures, diagrams, coat of arms,legal cases, sources. I was able to get in the mail an original copy of the family tree Made a hundred years ago. I also received a package today of the documents that were used to prove "hidalguia", nobility. And yes it does provide names and relationships.
I hope to have a Christmas present for you,
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Ruiz de Esparza timeline evidence, without giving specific dates
Dear Chris,
You stated that you could see the timeline working out if Simon, Martin, and Lope el viejo all had their son when they were older. You forgot to add Sancho to that conversation. When I first tried to make a connection between Simon, Cathalina , and Sancho, I did not find Simon in the mix. Sancho was identified as Cathalina's father with no mention of Simon. But Simon then is positively identified in later records as being the brother of Cathalina and son of Sancho. This implies that Sancho was much older when Simon was born.
Here is the evidence:
First evidence). We have the documentation from Guillermina stating that Simon is the brother of Cathalina and that Martin is the son of Simon. She directs her ownership share to be transferred to Martin (her cousin). Simon is not mentioned in records that I first found when researching Catalina which points to Simon being much younger than her so Sancho was much older when Simon was born.
Second evidence). The transaction is identified as a transaction between a nephew and an uncle. Secondary sources flip who is who when they read this because Martin, the uncle, is much younger than the nephew, the saints father (Guillerminas son) who is following his mother's wishes.
Third evidence). Lope el menor's birthdate is well documented. His brother Andres's birthdate is also documented, and it is documented that they have the same father. This means that Lope el viejo was "viejo", (old) when Lope "el menor" was born.
All three pieces of evidence explain the time line.
I am sorry but I don't want to add dates yet, I just want to provide the evidence for the men in this family to be much older than average when having the men in this line.
While this timeline proves that it there is very good reason to accept the father's as older fathers, it brings up the question of the ages of the mothers. Did the men marry, or have relationships, with women much younger than them? It would seem so, since the mothers are identified. Graciana Huici is identified as a mother of Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici, and Maria de Espinosa is identified as the mother of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el viejo/ el mayor, Lope Ruiz de Esparza el menor's mother is identified but there are twenty-seven years between Captain Andres Ruiz de Esparza's birthdate and Lope el menor's birthdate, and while possible, this is the second wife that has a large gap between the births of her sons. The first wife that has a large gap between the births of two of her children is Juana Zariquegui, Sancho's wife. I don't know how long a gap there is between Cathalina who obviously is much older than Simon. I believe that Cathalina was very young, early teens, when she married. We know that Juana is the mother of Simon as the surname becomes attached to his descendants properties.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Before 1495 means there is no way he was born in 1495
Dear Chris,
I am sorry if I contributed to the confusion about the dates. I just saw how I posted before 1495. What I meant was that I was disagreeing with the post that George had directed me to. George was the first to mention that he did not find the information on that post to be reliable. After we had come up with our tree, I asked him to direct me to the post in order to compare our information to what had been posted.That post had a birthdate as 1495 which is ridiculous so I wrote before 1495 as a statement that I was disagreeing with that posted date. I have not committed myself as to dates yet, though I have found evidence that the men were indeed much older when they were siring our line than the average man. And there is evidence, it's not just my calculations to make it work.
Sorry for the poor communication,
Rick A. Ricci
Huici and Vici
I do want to point out a difference between what I am reporting and what Mariano Gonzalez Leal writes. He writes that the surname for Graciana is Vici, while I have her surname as Huici. Very small difference, and I include both spellings in my post.
Thanks,
Rick
Huici vs Vici
Rick
I have seen Huici as well in some Spanish archive indexed documents. I wonder if "Vici" may be due to how the handwriting has been read. For example, I have seen "Ursula" read and transcribed as "Vrsula."
George.
The land transfer between uncle and nephew
I made a little mistake in one of my posts. I said that many genealogists mistakenly called the transfer of land between an uncle and nephew. In reality they got that part right. I had mistakenly called it a transfer between second cousins. The mistake is made by the genealogists as to which one is the uncle and which one is the nephew because Martin Ruiz de Esparza is the first cousin to the saints grandmother, Guillermina, making Martin the uncle even though he was the one that was much younger. The saints father is the nephew, again, even though he is the older person.
This helps explain the timeline that I will post later.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
St. Francis Xavier
There is a booklet available on the Internet as a pdf that gives the ancestry of St. Francis Xavier: "La Familia de Atondo y La Genealogia de S. Francisco de Javier," published in Pamplona in 1920. Do a google search for "La Familia de Atondo" and the link should come up.
George Fulton
Ruiz de Esparza
Hi George, Rick and Danny,
This is a really interesting discussion. And, Rick, the link you showed between St. Francis Xavier and our Lope Ruiz de Esparza is really fascinating -nice research. I do have a question about the ancestry of Lope Ruiz de Esparza. I have seen the Martin Ruiz de Esparza and Maria Espinoza genealogy now for several years and I suppose it makes sense. But, I wonder if a generation may be missing. If you assume that our Lope Ruiz de Esparza was born in 1569 and we know that Sancho Ruiz de Esparza had a daughter, Catalina that married in 1403 or 1413, that would suggest that Catalina was born between 1383 and 1393 which would suggest that Sancho Ruiz de Esparza was born between 1363 and 1373. It would seem that 1363 to 1569 would leave around 200 years between Sancho Ruiz de Esparza and our Lope Ruiz de Esparza. That's a very large amount of time to cover for just the elder Lope, Martin and Simon, unless we assume that all three were older than the average person when they had their children. It's definitely possible and the the dates are workable, it just seems somewhat unusual for the timeframe.
Chris
Lope Ruiz de Esparza
Dear Chris,
You are correct that there is a large time gap but there is a reason for it. Our Lope Ruiz de Esparza "el menor" was born when his father was older. The time gap between the birth of of the brothers is twenty seven years. It is documented in separate documents. One set of documents was brought to Mexico while the other set of documents is in Spain. Capitan Andres Ruiz de Esparza was in Costa Rica decades before His brother crossed the Atlantic. The brothers may not have even known each other until Lope came over.
Simon also was much older when he had Martin and that is why some genealogist have made the mistake of calling the saint's father his uncle. The saints father was much older when there was an exchange of land with Martin Ruiz de Esparza and that is why Martin is mistakenly called his nephew when the actual relationship between the two is second cousins.
The third piece of evidence is that Simon is much younger than Catalina. When I was researching I came upon information when Sancho already had Cathalina and another sibling and Simon hadn't been born yet. So Simon was a much younger sibling himself but how much younger I don't know.
You have a sharp eye Chris, you need to send me your email so that I may add you as a collaborator in other investigations.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Time line
Rick
Would it be possible to put together a time line with dates of other documents you have. This could also help make better estimates of the birthdates, and ultimately help with Chris's point.
It is certainly possible for men to have children late in life, especially with a second or third wife (we see with Juan de Santiago and his three wives and numerous children (perhaps as many as 45!)).
George
Timeline
Dear George, Chris, Danny, and others....
Your request for a timeline is not being disregarded. The timeline that I have been working on includes who I believe is Sancho Ruiz de Esparza's father. Since I still need a few more pieces to find out whether he is a father or grandfather, I ask for your patience as I would like to present the timeline with Sancho's father. George has some of my information but I asked him to not share it yet as we need a few more pieces to add to the puzzle. Sancho's father is an important part of the family tree as I see him as the trunk from which the main branches of the family come from. Though Sancho is a big branch, I see his his father as the trunk. I say father but I need a couple little pieces to prove it. I also want to investigate a little bit more on the pieces that I already have. So patience please.
George, You have some of the information in front of you so you can see why I want to wait to include him. Thanks for keeping it close to the vest.
Thank you,
Rick A. Ricci
Collaboration with George Fulton and Mary Lou Mantagna
One of the issues that I had in putting the tree together was that there are two Catalina Ruiz de Esparzas in the court of the King. Since they were alive at the same time, I kept open the possibility that they were the same person with multiple relationships. The conundrum of the multiple relationships of Catalina Ruiz de Esparza had me scratching my head. It was through working with George Fulton that we were able to discover that there are two Catalina Ruiz de Esparzas, with different parents.. He also helped me discover that Simon is the son of Sancho, I had many clues that he is his son, but the final piece that cemented it came about because of George's collaboration. I am deeply in debt to George.for this collaboration.
I have also received contributions by Mary Lou Mantagna. I often share with Mary Lou pieces of my research before I post them. Her input and contributions are invaluable. It was Mary Lou Mantagna, Ofelia Marquez, Steven F. Hernandez, Miguel "Miggy" Gutierrez, and others from the Orange County genealogy group that reignited my passion for genealogy a couple of decades ago.
Thanks again George and Mary Lou,
Rick A. Ricci
Ruiz de Esparza
Hi Rick,
Yeah, I think the Martin Ruiz de Esparza genealogy makes the most sense, it's just the dates I question. I've seen many researchers give the birth of Simon Ruiz de Esparza as circa 1495, which would make Sancho Ruiz de Esparza around 130 years old when Simon was born. I don't question the genealogy really, I more question the dates. Martin Ruiz de Esparza would have to be born prior to 1495 and Simon born closer to or before 1450 for the genealogy to remotely make sense.
Chris
I have much more information on the Ruiz de Esparza
Dear Chris,
I did not produce this tree from what others have posted. It was only at the end that I asked George to lead me to the different postings that he was talking about. I had trouble getting to those posts and found myself looking at a book in a foreign language, other than Spanish. I fooled around and tried to read the book though I only know how to read certain words that have to do with genealogy. I hit the jackpot as Sancho is mentioned as the father of Simon who is the father of Martin Ruiz de Esparza.
This tree is based on evidence. George Fulton said he wanted to see evidence, and that was right up my alley. I want to see evidence. I took out what I had on my research on the Ruiz de Esparza and saw many many pieces to the puzzle, but with important little pieces missing. Some pieces fit together here, and others there, but the little pieces to bring the bigger groups together were missing. The little pieces were needed to prove it. Collaborating with George and Mary Lou added the missing pieces that first solved the problem of so many relationships for Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza. They ended up being two people. The other was what proof did Mariano have for what he states. Discussion with Mary Lou and some more investigating by me showed him to be correct. Finding why the large age gaps existed also solved this issue.
I have a lot more information than what I have posted. Most of the information I had before I posted the material, and before you replied. After reading your reply I was ready to answer you when my wife sent me on an errand to Taco Bell. She was hungary, angry, and wanted some food fast. I exited the house to go to Taco Bell and sitting on the porch was a package containing some documents that I had orderered some time ago hoping for some answers. I opened the package while waiting in the car for our food. In it is a testament that proves the tree that I posted. It is the testament that names Sancho as the father of both Cathalina and Simon. It mentions Simons son Martin. Catalina speaks well of her relatives. There is more, it is a record that supports all the work that I posted from Sancho to Martin.
I have a lot more information and because of this information I believe I know who Sancho's father is. But until I get a little more evidence, there is a small possibility that he is his grandfather. I have much more work to do before I post that information. I have ordered other documents that are supposedly in transit, but I never know when documents will arrive when they are coming from Spain, and even when they do arrive, they don't always have new information. I was extremely lucky with today's arrival.
There are more stories and explanations to come. The Ruiz de Esparza family tree can fill up a book on its own. I may have to separate it from the rest of my book, as a chapter may not do it justice.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
lope ruiz de esparza
Mr. Ricci,
is there a document that specifically says martin Ruiz de esparza is the father of Lope Ruiz de Esparza
Danny C. Alonso
Mariano Gonzalez leaks document
Yes there is, but that document is not on my possession. The document was needed because our Lope is "hijo natural" so Lope Ruiz de Esparza el Mayor, the son of Martin Ruiz de Esparza, felt that it was necessary in order to identify his sons as descendants of their line of nobility. From Martin to our Lope the tree is based on the documents that Mariano Gonzalez Leal cites. I wish I had the document because I although am not questioning its contents regarding the men, I want more info on the women. The focus on the documents is the descendency of the men. I wish I had those documents to put the women under the magnifying glass. Everybody just focuses on the men, which I believe is wrong. Well it's wrong for what I want, as I desire to investigate all our ancestors, not just the men's paternal ancestry.
I made a mistake when I said that Cathalina speaks well of her relatives, it does mention that Catharina and Simon are siblings, but it is Guilermina (Guillmina) who speaks well of Simon and Martin Ruiz de Esparza. It is the document that leads to the saints father passing over title of their portion of the land to His second cousin Martin Ruiz de Esoarza. The issue that I struggled with before I figured out the tree was that many genealogists wrongly say they are uncle/nephew. I explained this age difference earlier.
Thanks,
Rick
Lope ruis de esparza
Mr. Ricci,
I agree i would like to know about the women too.
Danny C. Alonso
New blood Danny
Dear Danny,
My nickname for you is newblood. When I was very young I was interested in genealogy when others my age didn't care. Later, when I was ready to give up genealogy as a hobby, I met Steve Hernandez when he was a puppy just like you. Steve's passion for genealogy research was contagious, just like I find yours to be. Steve's enthusiasm, along with others from his group, got me back on track.
When I remembered that I had done some research on your family tree that connected you to the Ruiz de Esparza, I sent you an email of this line. Your response that while you respected my desire for keeping it quiet, but that it was too special of a discovery, and that I should post it led me to posting it immediately. It was the type of enthusiasm that I really like seeing. So I posted it as a reward for your enthusiasm. I have a lot more pieces to the puzzle, lots more. But I need to do a little more research before I post the material.
Someone once derided my work on this site as just someone posting things on the Internet without evidence. For the people that don't have faith in my post, and need to read it from a book, you are going to have to wait for me to publish my book or books. For the people like Chris, George, Danny, Manny, Bill, Mary Lou, who have faith in my work, I will continue to post findings on this site.
Not all my work will be posted here first as my de la torre Ledesma research is too large because all of the stories involved in that research so that topic will have too wait for a book.
Thank you so much for your infectious enthusiasm Danny,
Rick A. Ricci
thank you
Thank you Mr. Ricci, i really appreciate what you had to say. and i always look forward to your findings.
Danny C. Alonso
Thank you
Rick
Thank you for the kind words! The recent hard work is all yours.
George