Thanks to Rich and Kitty Cortez who copied 8 records for me while they were in Salt Lake I have some major new discoveries. Talk about some eyeopeners !!!
Here's my ancestry in this my maternal grandmother's line, Maria del Refugio Ruiz, Esparza born Aug 1900>>her father and my g-grandfather, Refugio Ruiz Muños Bapt 01 March 1869. He was the son of Jose Rafael Ruiz Esparza my gg-grandfather born around 1834, son of my ggg -grandfather, Cirilo Ruiz, Alvares & Maria Cayetana Esparza, Luevano, daughter of my gggg -grandparents, Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano.
1) Marriage records for Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano from Pabellon, Rincon de Romos, Aguascalientes, marriage date 18 Jan 1807. I had not ordered this roll of film as it was one of the only records outside my primary target area of Nochistlan Zac and I did not think it would give up so much information. I have always wondered what indian tribe my family descends from and while I still don't know what tribe I have the first evidence that we are indios from the Aguascalientes region - here's the content of this marriage record.
Film # 0635756, Batch # M602763, 1798-1845, En la capilla de Pabellon, feligresia de Pueblo de San Jose de Gracia en 18 del mes de Enero de 1807, Doroteo Esparza, mestizo, origniario y vecino de La Hacienda de Garabato, hijo legitimo de Pioquinto Esparza y de Gertrudis Manriques con Maria Dolores Luebana, Española, originaria de La Hacienda de Garabato y Nicomedes en la jurisdicion de Aguascalientes en el puesto de Las Trojes quatro años y vecina en Garabatos quatro años, hija leg de Maximiano Luebana y Ursula Castorena. Padrinos Roberto Ximenes y Maria Casilda Duran.
2) The second surprise was from the branch of Cirilo Ruiz Alvares, the husband of Maria Cayetana Esparza Luevano noted above. I requested the baptism record of his brother as I still don't have a record of Cirilo's birthdate but guess it was around 1805 which is the year that is missing for baptisms from Nochistlan.
LDS Film # 0226657, batch # C606233, 1800-1804, Bautismos Nochistlan, Juan Jose Evaristo, Español, hijo legitimo de Jose Bictoreano Ruis y de Maria Ysabel Macias y nieto legitimo por parte paterna no se sabe quienes fueron. y por parte materna, Jose Maria Macias y de Maria de la O Duran; Fueron sus padrinos, Jose Andres Muños y Maria Ynes Martinez de Soto Mayor.
What this tells me is that Cirilo's father Bictoreano Ruiz, my gggg-grandfather did not know who his parents were. Bictoreano Ruiz and Maria Ysavel had their first child in 1797 and they had 10 children, if not more and the last baptism record I have of their children is for 1810 in Nochistlan, Zac. Bictoreano must have been born around 1777 +/- a few years. Even though the birth record says español that is dubious because if they don't know who the paternal grandparents were how can they know he was an español?
So thanks Rich and Kitty.......without your help and without the assistance from all in this group I would not be as far as I am in my research and I would not enjoy it as much as I do.
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Calif
New Findings
A big hug of thanks to Kitty & Rich Cortez who also copied records while they were in Salt Lake. A big mystery has been solved. The name of the bride was different, but now with the marriage document in hand, the name was actually that of the "testigo".
Also, with the other documents, I have now been able to go up another level with the ancestors.
Okay, Joseph, you can not do your "happy dance". We have now discovered that I connect with Rich Cortez, and Rosalinda Ruiz, with our Sandoval lines.
Helyn
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Thanks to Rich and Kitty Cortez who copied 8 records for me while they were in Salt Lake I have some major new discoveries. Talk about some eyeopeners !!!
New Findings
Santos Luna wrote:
>
> Okay, Joseph, you can not do your "happy dance". We have now discovered that I connect with Rich Cortez, and Rosalinda Ruiz, with our Sandoval lines.
>
> Helyn
>
>
>
I'm a Sandoval too and possibly from the same area. remind me later as
I'm rushing out the door to give you the one Sandoval GGGG grandmother I
have in my Genealogy. Hey I want to be a cousin toooooo! Wait for me.
tu primo,
joseph
ps: save me some menudo and of course congratulations!!! what a happy
day to find family.
New Findings
I also want to add my thanks. They were able to locate records on my great grandfather, including his wife's name. My aunt told me that my grandfather's middle name was Munoz, and it turns out my great grandmother was Panfila Munoz. Interesting, because my grandmother was also named Panfila.
Thanks again to the Cortez'!
John Robles
Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Thanks to Rich and Kitty Cortez who copied 8 records for me while they were in Salt Lake I have some major new discoveries. Talk about some eyeopeners !!!
Here's my ancestry in this my maternal grandmother's line, Maria del Refugio Ruiz, Esparza born Aug 1900>>her father and my g-grandfather, Refugio Ruiz Muños Bapt 01 March 1869. He was the son of Jose Rafael Ruiz Esparza my gg-grandfather born around 1834, son of my ggg -grandfather, Cirilo Ruiz, Alvares & Maria Cayetana Esparza, Luevano, daughter of my gggg -grandparents, Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano.
1) Marriage records for Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano from Pabellon, Rincon de Romos, Aguascalientes, marriage date 18 Jan 1807. I had not ordered this roll of film as it was one of the only records outside my primary target area of Nochistlan Zac and I did not think it would give up so much information. I have always wondered what indian tribe my family descends from and while I still don't know what tribe I have the first evidence that we are indios from the Aguascalientes region - here's the content of this marriage record.
Film # 0635756, Batch # M602763, 1798-1845, En la capilla de Pabellon, feligresia de Pueblo de San Jose de Gracia en 18 del mes de Enero de 1807, Doroteo Esparza, mestizo, origniario y vecino de La Hacienda de Garabato, hijo legitimo de Pioquinto Esparza y de Gertrudis Manriques con Maria Dolores Luebana, Española, originaria de La Hacienda de Garabato y Nicomedes en la jurisdicion de Aguascalientes en el puesto de Las Trojes quatro años y vecina en Garabatos quatro años, hija leg de Maximiano Luebana y Ursula Castorena. Padrinos Roberto Ximenes y Maria Casilda Duran.
2) The second surprise was from the branch of Cirilo Ruiz Alvares, the husband of Maria Cayetana Esparza Luevano noted above. I requested the baptism record of his brother as I still don't have a record of Cirilo's birthdate but guess it was around 1805 which is the year that is missing for baptisms from Nochistlan.
LDS Film # 0226657, batch # C606233, 1800-1804, Bautismos Nochistlan, Juan Jose Evaristo, Español, hijo legitimo de Jose Bictoreano Ruis y de Maria Ysabel Macias y nieto legitimo por parte paterna no se sabe quienes fueron. y por parte materna, Jose Maria Macias y de Maria de la O Duran; Fueron sus padrinos, Jose Andres Muños y Maria Ynes Martinez de Soto Mayor.
What this tells me is that Cirilo's father Bictoreano Ruiz, my gggg-grandfather did not know who his parents were. Bictoreano Ruiz and Maria Ysavel had their first child in 1797 and they had 10 children, if not more and the last baptism record I have of their children is for 1810 in Nochistlan, Zac. Bictoreano must have been born around 1777 +/- a few years. Even though the birth record says español that is dubious because if they don't know who the paternal grandparents were how can they know he was an español?
So thanks Rich and Kitty.......without your help and without the assistance from all in this group I would not be as far as I am in my research and I would not enjoy it as much as I do.
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Calif
New Findings
Hello Alicia, I wonder a lot how careful a person in charge of inscribing a baptism in the book could be. Some times the letters in a record look like the "hand" is drunken, trembling a lot or maybe was someone that knew everybody in town or ranch that it felt no need to write so many names, so inscribed no parents known or nothing at all. I have seen records where in the case of a child there where parents or grandparents unknown, and then for a brother or sister of that child those persons names appeared. I suggest you look for more brothers or sisters records, maybe someone has the missing siblings.
Alicia Carrillo escribió: Thanks to Rich and Kitty Cortez who copied 8 records for me while they were in Salt Lake I have some major new discoveries. Talk about some eyeopeners !!!
Here's my ancestry in this my maternal grandmother's line, Maria del Refugio Ruiz, Esparza born Aug 1900>>her father and my g-grandfather, Refugio Ruiz Muños Bapt 01 March 1869. He was the son of Jose Rafael Ruiz Esparza my gg-grandfather born around 1834, son of my ggg -grandfather, Cirilo Ruiz, Alvares & Maria Cayetana Esparza, Luevano, daughter of my gggg -grandparents, Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano.
1) Marriage records for Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano from Pabellon, Rincon de Romos, Aguascalientes, marriage date 18 Jan 1807. I had not ordered this roll of film as it was one of the only records outside my primary target area of Nochistlan Zac and I did not think it would give up so much information. I have always wondered what indian tribe my family descends from and while I still don't know what tribe I have the first evidence that we are indios from the Aguascalientes region - here's the content of this marriage record.
Film # 0635756, Batch # M602763, 1798-1845, En la capilla de Pabellon, feligresia de Pueblo de San Jose de Gracia en 18 del mes de Enero de 1807, Doroteo Esparza, mestizo, origniario y vecino de La Hacienda de Garabato, hijo legitimo de Pioquinto Esparza y de Gertrudis Manriques con Maria Dolores Luebana, Española, originaria de La Hacienda de Garabato y Nicomedes en la jurisdicion de Aguascalientes en el puesto de Las Trojes quatro años y vecina en Garabatos quatro años, hija leg de Maximiano Luebana y Ursula Castorena. Padrinos Roberto Ximenes y Maria Casilda Duran.
2) The second surprise was from the branch of Cirilo Ruiz Alvares, the husband of Maria Cayetana Esparza Luevano noted above. I requested the baptism record of his brother as I still don't have a record of Cirilo's birthdate but guess it was around 1805 which is the year that is missing for baptisms from Nochistlan.
LDS Film # 0226657, batch # C606233, 1800-1804, Bautismos Nochistlan, Juan Jose Evaristo, Español, hijo legitimo de Jose Bictoreano Ruis y de Maria Ysabel Macias y nieto legitimo por parte paterna no se sabe quienes fueron. y por parte materna, Jose Maria Macias y de Maria de la O Duran; Fueron sus padrinos, Jose Andres Muños y Maria Ynes Martinez de Soto Mayor.
What this tells me is that Cirilo's father Bictoreano Ruiz, my gggg-grandfather did not know who his parents were. Bictoreano Ruiz and Maria Ysavel had their first child in 1797 and they had 10 children, if not more and the last baptism record I have of their children is for 1810 in Nochistlan, Zac. Bictoreano must have been born around 1777 +/- a few years. Even though the birth record says español that is dubious because if they don't know who the paternal grandparents were how can they know he was an español?
So thanks Rich and Kitty.......without your help and without the assistance from all in this group I would not be as far as I am in my research and I would not enjoy it as much as I do.
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Calif
New Findings
> What this tells me is that Cirilo's father, Bictoreano Ruiz, my gggg-grandfather did not know who his parents were. Bictoreano Ruiz and Maria Ysavel had their first child in 1797 and they had 10 children, if not more and the last baptism record I have of their children is for 1810 in Nochistlan, Zac. Bictoreano must have been born around 1777 +/- a few years. Even though the birth record says español that is dubious because if they don't know who the paternal grandparents were how can they know he was an español?
It has been my finding that for whatever reason one record will say that the grandparents are unknown while another record will list the names of the supposedly unknown relatives.
The baptism record of Josef Manuel Candelario RUIZ ALVAREZ, c. 24 Feb 1799 -- Film # 0226656, identifies the parents of Victoriano Ruiz as Josef Antonio Ruiz and Maria Felipa Gonzales. However, I have not found any record of them as a couple or as parents. I will check the christening record of Maria Sebastiana Ynis De La Ssma. Trinidad RUIZ ALBAREZ, chr. 28 JAN 1808 -- Film # 0226658, to see if the information is the same.
I am more curious about why the husband of Maria de la O Duran was sometimes called Jose Maria Macias and sometimes referred to as Jose Maria Alvarez.
~Deena Ortiz~
P.S. I have the first child of Victoreano Ruiz and Maria Ysavel Alvarez (Macias) as Maria Desideria Guadalupe RUIZ ALVAREZ, chr. 26 Feb 1795, Film # 0226655. I also have ten children listed, but if you have ten without Maria Desideria, I must be missing a child.
(1) 1795 Maria Desideria Guadalupe
(2) 1797 Jose Maria Aquilino
(3) 1799 Josef Manuel Candelario
(4) 1802 Juan Jose Evaristo
(5) Abt 1803 Jose Sirilo
(6) Abt 1805 Calixto
(7) Abt 1805 Maria de la O
(8) 1808 Maria Sebatiana Ynes de la Trinidad
(9) 1810 Maria Theodora
(10) Abt 1810 Maria Ysidora
New Findings
----- Original Message ----
From: Deena Ortiz drortiz@charter.net
It has been my finding that for whatever reason one record will say that the grandparents are unknown while another record will list the names of the supposedly unknown relatives.
Thanks Deena and Leticia for reminding me that one record does not paint the whole picture, it is only a small segment of the big picture. This is the first birth document on this family group that I have viewed. I should have requested 2 documents and the reason I requested this particular document is that it lists a different name for the birth mother than what's listed in all the other IGI listings for this family group, Maria Ysavel Macias rather than Maria Ysavel Alvares Macias.
The baptism record of Josef Manuel Candelario RUIZ ALVAREZ, c. 24 Feb 1799 -- Film # 0226656, identifies the parents of Victoriano Ruiz as Josef Antonio Ruiz and Maria Felipa Gonzales. However, I have not found any record of them as a couple or as parents. I will check the christening record of Maria Sebastiana Ynis De La Ssma. Trinidad RUIZ ALBAREZ, chr. 28 JAN 1808 -- Film # 0226658, to see if the information is the same.
I am more curious about why the husband of Maria de la O Duran was sometimes called Jose Maria Macias and sometimes referred to as Jose Maria Alvarez.
~Deena Ortiz~
P.S. I have the first child of Victoreano Ruiz and Maria Ysavel Alvarez (Macias) as Maria Desideria Guadalupe RUIZ ALVAREZ, chr. 26 Feb 1795, Film # 0226655. I also have ten children listed, but if you have ten without Maria Desideria, I must be missing a child. Deena, thanks for this new info.........I will check the IGI and add Desideria to this family group.
(1) 1795 Maria Desideria Guadalupe - I don't have her in my records
(2) 1797 Jose Maria Aquilino
(3) 1799 Josef Manuel Candelario
(4) 1802 Juan Jose Evaristo
(5) Abt 1803 Jose Sirilo
(6) Abt 1805 Calixto
(7) Abt 1805 Maria de la O
(8) 1808 Maria Sebatiana Ynes de la Trinidad - I had her listed twice, first time as Maria Ynes and 2nd as Maria Sebastian Ynes de la Santisima Trinidad. I usually keep the two names when in doubt until I can determine if it is the same or a different person. Maria Ynes happens to be the first wife of my husband's GG Grandfather, Jose Bernardino Carrillo. They married in 1831 and I show they had 2 children. Jose Bernardino remarried in 1841 to Maria Juana Hernandez and this is my husband's direct line ancestry through his second wife.
(9) 1810 Maria Theodora
(10) Abt 1810 Maria Ysidora
New Findings
----- Original Message ----
From: Leticia Leon marionicia@yahoo.com.mx
Hello Alicia, I wonder a lot how careful a person in charge of inscribing a baptism in the book could be. Some times the letters in a record look like the "hand" is drunken, trembling a lot or maybe was someone that knew everybody in town or ranch that it felt no need to write so many names, so inscribed no parents known or nothing at all. I have seen records where in the case of a child there where parents or grandparents unknown, and then for a brother or sister of that child those persons names appeared. I suggest you look for more brothers or sisters records, maybe someone has the missing siblings.
Hola Leticia,
Gracias por el recordatorio de que un archivo no basta para completar todos los datos. El investigador debe proceder en una manera cautelosa, meticulosa y con calma. Poco a poco se va formando la familia de nuestros antepasados.
Leticia, thanks for the reminder that one record does not make up our database. The genealogist must be cautious and meticulous in his/her research and step by step, document by document the picture of our ancestors comes together.
Alicia
San Jose, Ca