Please excuse me if I am posting incorrectly, as this is my first time posting here.
My name is Gracie Morales and I am researching my great-grandmother's side of the family (Her mother is Villalobos). So far, things have gone relatively smooth...but then I hit a bump in the road and I cannot seem to find my way through the forest. I am beyond confused and looking at my information only frustrates me.
Here is what I have:
Ygnacio Robalcava:
B: 8 Apr 1731 in San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalisco. Hijo de: Juana Pedrosa y Josef Robalcava. Ygnacio died 12 Feb. 1785 and was married to Francisca Teodora de Abila (B. 4 Apr 1733 in Aguascalientes).
Juana Pedrosa:
B. 8 June 1692 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco. Hija de: Maria de la Cruz y Santiago Pedrosa de Nava (B. 22 Jul 1668). Juana married Josef Robalcava on 17 Aug 1707 in Jalisco. Josef's parents are Juana de Mendoza y Manuel de Robalcava (B. 1 Sep 1660).
Ok, I am PRETTY SURE this much is correct (but I'm always checking). This is where things are falling apart on me.
Maria de La Cruz: I found something, somewhere online that said Maria de La Cruz is the daughter of Catarina Macias Valadez y Villegas and Tomas de Villalobos y Perez de Nava (B: 22 Feb 1604). BUT... her husband, Santiago Pedrosa de Nava (B: 22 Jul 1668) has his parents Cpt. Marcos de Pedrosa y Alba and Maria Isabel de Nava (M. 1656 or 1657, not sure yet). Maria Isabel de Nava's parents are Catarina Macias Valadez y Villegas and Tomas de Villalobos y Perez de Nava (B. 22 Feb 1604). If true, Santiago married his aunt? I cannot remember where I got the information about Maria de la Cruz's parents so it's something I cannot cite and is only penciled in until I can say for sure.
Also, some clarification on all the Santiago Pedrosa's would be nice. From what I understand: Santiago Pedrosa married Juana Bautista de Alba y Retamosa. They had two sons: Marcos and Nicolas. Both sons had sons, each named Santiago Pedrosa. Marcos's Santiago married Maria de la Cruz. Nicolas's son Santiago married Juana de Acosta. THEN there's a Santiago who married Maria de la Cruz Martin del Campo Isassi... is this my relation? Her parents are Nicolas Martin del Campo Lopez de la Cruz and Sebastiana Isassi Cuevas. If so, my original assertion that Santiago married his aunt is wrong.
I am all over the board on this and I cannot move until I get it resolved. I have only decided to post here because I am only going around in circles and am not able to figure it out on my own. I don't know how else to untangle my mess without help. Please help me... if you can. I tried to include as much as I could without being overwhelming. Let me know if there is something I can change. Thank you for your help!
Juana Pedrosa / Josef Robalcava
Hello Gracie,
My paternal great-grandmother was also a Villalobos from Lagos de Moreno.
Who was your great-grandmother?
Do you have the marriage info for Juana Pedrosa y Josef Robalcava? How do
you know that this Juana Pedrosa was the one b. 8 June 1692?
There was only one Maria de la Cruz that married a Santiago de Pedrosa.
Maria de la Cruz and Maria de la Cruz Martin del Campo Isassi are actually
the same person.
What I have for the parents of María de la Cruz Martín del Campo Isassi is
from the website of Javier Sanchiz Ruiz and his source of information is
from Juan Francisco Javier Salceda Andrade who is a friend of Mariano
González Leal and Mary Lou Montagna. They are all serious genealogists. He
was also friends with the late Jaime Holcombe Isunza who was also a serious
genealogist.
The website is
http://gw.geneanet.org/sanchiz?lang=es;p=maria+de+la+cruz;n=martin+del+…
Her parents are shown to be Nicolas Martin del Campo Lopez de la Cruz and
Sebastiana Isassi Cuevas.
I am not sure where Juan Francisco Javier Salceda Andrade got his
information for her parents but since we don't have anything to refute it I
consider it correct until I can find otherwise.
I know that the father of Santiago de Pedrosa was Marcos de Pedrosa thanks
to the following dispensa
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18402-45178-87?cc=1874591&wc…
What helps prove it is that the sister of Santiago de Pedrosa named
Catalina de Pedrosa alias Catalina de Nava is mentioned as being the
daughter of Marcos de Pedrosa and Maria de Nava in her marriage record.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41841-29?cc=1874591&wc…
Since Santiago and Catalina are siblings and the parents of Catalina
were Marcos de Pedrosa and Maria de Nava and both Santiago and Catalina are
shown to be the children of Marcos de Pedrosa in the dispensa therefore we
can now concentrate on Marcos de Pedrosa.
We know that Marcos de Pedrosa was the son of Santiago de Pedrosa and Juana
Bautista de Alba because of his marriage record to María de Nava who was
the daughter of Tomás de Villalobos and Catarina Macias
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-24784-65?cc=1874591&wc…
Now we know that the Santiago that married Maria de la Cruz Martin del
Campo Isassi was the grandson of the Santiago that married Juana Bautista
de Alba.
Saludos,
Armando
On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 8:05 PM, wrote:
> Please excuse me if I am posting incorrectly, as this is my first time
> posting here.
>
> My name is Gracie Morales and I am researching my great-grandmother's side
> of the family (Her mother is Villalobos). So far, things have gone
> relatively smooth...but then I hit a bump in the road and I cannot seem to
> find my way through the forest. I am beyond confused and looking at my
> information only frustrates me.
>
> Here is what I have:
>
> Ygnacio Robalcava:
> B: 8 Apr 1731 in San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalisco. Hijo de: Juana Pedrosa
> y Josef Robalcava. Ygnacio died 12 Feb. 1785 and was married to Francisca
> Teodora de Abila (B. 4 Apr 1733 in Aguascalientes).
> Juana Pedrosa:
> B. 8 June 1692 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco. Hija de: Maria de la Cruz y
> Santiago Pedrosa de Nava (B. 22 Jul 1668). Juana married Josef Robalcava on
> 17 Aug 1707 in Jalisco. Josef's parents are Juana de Mendoza y Manuel de
> Robalcava (B. 1 Sep 1660).
>
> Ok, I am PRETTY SURE this much is correct (but I'm always checking). This
> is where things are falling apart on me.
> Maria de La Cruz: I found something, somewhere online that said Maria de
> La Cruz is the daughter of Catarina Macias Valadez y Villegas and Tomas de
> Villalobos y Perez de Nava (B: 22 Feb 1604). BUT... her husband, Santiago
> Pedrosa de Nava (B: 22 Jul 1668) has his parents Cpt. Marcos de Pedrosa y
> Alba and Maria Isabel de Nava (M. 1656 or 1657, not sure yet). Maria Isabel
> de Nava's parents are Catarina Macias Valadez y Villegas and Tomas de
> Villalobos y Perez de Nava (B. 22 Feb 1604). If true, Santiago married his
> aunt? I cannot remember where I got the information about Maria de la
> Cruz's parents so it's something I cannot cite and is only penciled in
> until I can say for sure.
>
> Also, some clarification on all the Santiago Pedrosa's would be nice. From
> what I understand: Santiago Pedrosa married Juana Bautista de Alba y
> Retamosa. They had two sons: Marcos and Nicolas. Both sons had sons, each
> named Santiago Pedrosa. Marcos's Santiago married Maria de la Cruz.
> Nicolas's son Santiago married Juana de Acosta. THEN there's a Santiago who
> married Maria de la Cruz Martin del Campo Isassi... is this my relation?
> Her parents are Nicolas Martin del Campo Lopez de la Cruz and Sebastiana
> Isassi Cuevas. If so, my original assertion that Santiago married his aunt
> is wrong.
> I am all over the board on this and I cannot move until I get it resolved.
> I have only decided to post here because I am only going around in circles
> and am not able to figure it out on my own. I don't know how else to
> untangle my mess without help. Please help me... if you can. I tried to
> include as much as I could without being overwhelming. Let me know if there
> is something I can change. Thank you for your help!
Juana Pedrosa and Josef Robalcava
Armando,
Thank you for your response!
Juana Pedrosa and Josef Robalcava were married on 17 Aug, 1707 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-150-88?cc=1874591&wc=M…
Juana Pedrosa was baptized on 8 June 1692 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco. Hija de Santiago de Pedrosa y Maria de la Cruz.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18573-57341-5?cc=1874591&wc=…
I will re-write this branch in my tree... with the leads you have graciously provided to me (of course, I will go through them first...lol).
Also, my great grandmother's name was Soledad Villalobos (B. 4 Apr 1892). She was the daughter of Maria Catarina Carrillo Esparza (B. 25 Oct 1871) and Jose Marcello Villalobos Chaves (B. 20 Jan 1864). Soledad married Abundio Zul in 1908.
Marcello was the son of Jose Serapio (B. 27 Nov 1836) and Anita Chaves (B. 30 Jul 1837). Serapio was the son of Jesus Villalobos and Ysidra Losano. Do any of these people match yours? After Jesus and Ysidra, I have nothing.
You asked how I know it's the same Juana... I guess I really don't. The names on the records all match, it's an appropriate year-span, and Nicolas de Lomeli is on her baptism record. I am not sure what that relation is yet, but I have seen the name before.
Juana Pedrosa and Josef Robalcava
Queridos miembros del foro,
Alguién conoce o tiene más información sobre la asendencia de Santiago de Pedrosa y María de la Cruz? Es el mismo Santiago que casó Juana de Acosta? Creo que tuve un dato erróneo en mis archivos por que tenía una Juana de Acosta hija de Antonio de Pedroza y Elvira de Cuevas casada con José González de Ruvalcaba. Efectivamente, con este registro de casamiento está claro. En mis archivos María de la Cruz está con el sobrenombre Martín del Campo. Haste ahora, no consigo encontrar más información sobre Juana de Mendoza, casada con Manuel González de Ruvalcaba, padres de José de Ruvalcaba. Gracias por qualquier tipo de información.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
Saludos desde São Paulo, Brasil
Santiago Pedrosa
Daniel,
I have information but I have not had time to confirm the majority of it yet. Also, I apologize if I am not answering your question completely. I do not speak Spanish and may not fully understand what you are looking for.
Santiago Pedrosa (B. 22 Jul 1667) married Maria de la Cruz (Martin del Campo Ysassi). Santiago 1667 is hijo de Marcos de Pedrosa y Alba and Maria (Mariana) Isabel de Nava Villalobos y Macias Valadez. They married 6 Aug 1656.
Marcos is hijo de Santiago de la Pedrosa and Juana Bautista de Alba y Retamosa. I don't have any dates for them yet. Juana is hija de Joseph Alsonzo de Alba and Leonor Vasquez Retamosa (Macias Valadez de Retamosa)
Maria Isabel de Nava is hija de Tomas de Villalobos y Perez de Nava and Catarina Macias Valadez y Villegas. They married on 25 Feb 1604.
(Back to Maria de la Cruz, wife of Santiago 1667): Maria de la Cruz Martin del Campo Ysassi is hija de Sebastiana Isassi Cuevas and Nicolas Martin del Campo Lopez de la Cruz (I don't have any dates for them yet).
Sebastiana is hija de Elvira Germana Cuevas y Celis and Juan Francisco Ysassi y Munoz de Nava (no dates yet).
I have much more on these people's possible lineage...again, without the dates and confirmation. At this point, it's just preliminary information.
Your question asked if Santiago 1667 is the same who married Juana de Acosta. I am pretty certain the answer is "no". The Santiago you are referring to was Santiago Pedrosa y de Anda who married Juana de Acosta y Macias Valadez on 22 Jan 1695. Santiago 1695 is hijo de Nicolas de Pedrosa y de Alba and Mariana de Anda y Ruiz de Nava (married 2 Jul 1656).
Nicolas de Pedrosa was the other son of the eldest Santiago Pedrosa and Juana Bautista de Alba y Retamosa. Nicolas was the brother of Marcos de Pedrosa y Alba.
Mariana is the daughter of Juan de Anda Altamirano y Gonzalez de Castaneda and Juana Ruiz de Nava.
Now... Juana de Mendoza was married to Manuel de Rubalcaba (B. 1 Sep 1660). Manuel is hijo de Matheo de Rubalcaba and Cecilia Vasques de Ysla (I have not dates for them). I suspect Matheo is hijo de Lorenzo de Rubalcaba and Catalina Gonzalez but it is not known yet. I have no leads on Cecilia yet.
From what I have, Juana de Mendoza and Manuel de Rubalcaba are the parents of Josef de Rubalcaba who married Juana de Pedrosa (B 8 June 1692). Josef and Juana married 17 Aug 1707. Juana de Pedrosa is the daughter of Santiago 1667 and Maria de la Cruz Martin del Campo Ysassi (from the beginning of this message).
That's a general idea of what I have so far. Like I said, I am not certain of some of it because I haven't had the time to look further. Please let me know if...and what...you have so I can follow other possible leads, if necessary. Also, if you see that my information is wrong, I would appreciate it if you told me so I can fix my information.
I hope my information helps!
Christina Morales
Juana Pedrosa and Josef Robalcava
Estimado Daniel,
El Santiago de Pedrosa que casó con Juana de Acosta era hijo de Nicolás de
Pedroza y de Mariana de Anda comprobado por una dispensa. Vea el hilo que
contiene los mensajes entre Bill Figueroa y yo en
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20826
Saludos,
Armando
On Aug 5, 2013 12:51 PM, "Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino" <
mendezdetorres@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Queridos miembros del foro,
>
> Alguién conoce o tiene más información sobre la asendencia de Santiago de
> Pedrosa y María de la Cruz? Es el mismo Santiago que casó Juana de Acosta?
> Creo que tuve un dato erróneo en mis archivos por que tenía una Juana de
> Acosta hija de Antonio de Pedroza y Elvira de Cuevas casada con José
> González de Ruvalcaba. Efectivamente, con este registro de casamiento está
> claro. En mis archivos María de la Cruz está con el sobrenombre Martín del
> Campo. Haste ahora, no consigo encontrar más información sobre Juana de
> Mendoza, casada con Manuel González de Ruvalcaba, padres de José de
> Ruvalcaba. Gracias por qualquier tipo de información.
>
> Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
> Saludos desde São Paulo, Brasil
>
Juana Pedrosa and Josef Robalcava
Hello Gracie,
Based on the marriage record that you provided we can assume that it is the
same Juana because her parents were mentioned in the marriage record and
there is a baptism record (I did already have that).
Which records do you have that mention Jesus Villalobos and Ysidra Losano?
On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 12:42 PM, wrote:
> Armando,
>
> Thank you for your response!
>
> Juana Pedrosa and Josef Robalcava were married on 17 Aug, 1707 in
> Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-150-88?cc=**
> 1874591&wc=M99L-XQP:**n1086763421
>
> Juana Pedrosa was baptized on 8 June 1692 in Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco.
> Hija de Santiago de Pedrosa y Maria de la Cruz.
>
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1-18573-57341-5?cc=**
> 1874591&wc=M99L-X63:**n1849895672
>
> I will re-write this branch in my tree... with the leads you have
> graciously provided to me (of course, I will go through them first...lol).
>
> Also, my great grandmother's name was Soledad Villalobos (B. 4 Apr 1892).
> She was the daughter of Maria Catarina Carrillo Esparza (B. 25 Oct 1871)
> and Jose Marcello Villalobos Chaves (B. 20 Jan 1864). Soledad married
> Abundio Zul in 1908.
>
> Marcello was the son of Jose Serapio (B. 27 Nov 1836) and Anita Chaves (B.
> 30 Jul 1837). Serapio was the son of Jesus Villalobos and Ysidra Losano.
> Do any of these people match yours? After Jesus and Ysidra, I have nothing.
>
> You asked how I know it's the same Juana... I guess I really don't. The
> names on the records all match, it's an appropriate year-span, and Nicolas
> de Lomeli is on her baptism record. I am not sure what that relation is
> yet, but I have seen the name before.
>
>
>