Hello, I am new to this site so please excuse my ignorance in researching Mexican records. I am familiar with the record system in southern Italy but I have no clue about searching records in Jalisco. I would appreciate any help in learning how the births, deaths, and marriages were reported in Jalisco during the late 1800s. I think that there were prebably two records of each event; one civil and one church. I wonder if the records were kept in each village or were they sent to a bigger, centralized location?
Although I am the one doing the searching, I am doing it for my friend, Edward Bedoya Plazola. He was born in 1934 in Azusa, California a few months after his father died. Although he was the youngest of 14 children, the family didn't talk that much about his father becuase his mother soon remarried.
From bits of family lore and facts that I have dug up, this is what we know. Domingo Gonzales Plazola was born in 1889 in San Sebastian, Jalisco, Mexico. He was the son of unknown Plazola and Jacinta Gassia? Gonzalez born about 1860. We know that Domingo had a sister, Guadalupe who married a Vasquez, and brother Luis (b 18892). I am sure that there were more siblings. Luis settled in Corcoran, California. It's unknown if Guadalupe lived in the US but many of her children also lived near Corcoran. Jacinta Gonzalez arrived in the US about 1919. She also lived in Corcoran.
Domingo, Ed's father, was involved in the Revolution. About 1916, he felt threatened and decided to go to Arizona. He bagan using the the name, Domingo Gonzalez. He worked in the mines in Ray, Arizona. About 1920 he and his family moved to California.
I would like to find the birth, marriage, and deth records in Jalsico. Ed was told that he father was from San Sebastian near Guadalajara. I found two San Sebastians just south of the city but I can not figure out if both these villages were in existence during the 1880s and where the records might be. There are at leat two other San Sebastians in Jalisco. I have sent for some Family History films for two of the four.
If anyone can direct me to source for learning about the divisons of the Mexican states and record keeping, I would be grateful. As I said, I am new to this site and Mexican research so I am open to any help. If I am asking inappropriate questions, please forgive me.
Thanks,
Candis Carbone
birth certificate
Hello Candy. My grandfather born in San Sebastian del Oeste in 1908 and I found his birth certificate contacting the person who is in charge of the museum, her email is: mlupitbe@hotmail.com I talked with Maria Guadalupe and she told me that many information can be get it in the church, but if you send her an email with the information that you have, maybe she can help you.
San Sebastian Records
Candis:
Welcome to the group. It is great to have you here and I am hoping that we can help you out getting started with Mexican genealogy.
The best resource for geography in 19th century Mexico is Antonio Garcia Cubas. This great Mexican geographer published perhaps the most complete and beautiful atlas of Mexico in the 1860s and with it published a dictionary of Mexican geography and biography which includes the names of almost every rancho (rural village), pueblo and city in Mexico at the time.
You will find a link to an electronic version of his dictionary maintained by the Colegio de Mexico in the Nuestros Ranchos links section under Geography - Diccionario Geografico, Historico y Biografico de Mexico. You can find his atlas online in the David Rumsey digital map collection which is in the same links section of the site under Digital Map Collections.
For the most part, except for larger cities, municipal boundaries more or less coincide with parrish boundaries in Mexico. Thus I know there is a municipality in Jalisco called San Sebastian del Oeste, which by the way is supposed to be a very beautiful ghost town of sorts... old mining town in the mountains just southwest of Guadalajara. But as you mention, there are several San Sebastians listed in Cuba's dictionary...
One was part of the seventh canton of Ciudad Guzman, and two were part of the ninth canton (Mascota), including what is now San Sebastian del Oeste. You will see the names of the ranchos that were part of each town. If you can figure out where the towns were on the old Cubas map of Jalisco, you can then pick them out of a contemporary map (there is an atlas published by the Secretaria de Comunicaciones y Transporte also under Digital Maps in the links section) and figure out what municipality they would belong to.
I hope this information is helpful.
San Sebastian Records
Thank you so much! After so long running into dead ends, the Mexican Border
Crossing info confirmed that San Sebastian is the correct place. About 10
years ago I ordered some films from the Family History Library but there
were no Plazola names at all in the records. I just need to redefine which
San Sebastian and figure out which municipality it falls under and hope that
they have been filmed. Your explanation has helped me considerably.
I am already thinking that I may be Jalisco bound with my notes in hand!
thanks again.
Candy
>From: arturoramos
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Sebastian Records
>Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 06:48:36 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Candis:
>
>Welcome to the group. It is great to have you here and I am hoping that we
>can help you out getting started with Mexican genealogy.
>
>The best resource for geography in 19th century Mexico is Antonio Garcia
>Cubas. This great Mexican geographer published perhaps the most complete
>and beautiful atlas of Mexico in the 1860s and with it published a
>dictionary of Mexican geography and biography which includes the names of
>almost every rancho (rural village), pueblo and city in Mexico at the time.
>
>You will find a link to an electronic version of his dictionary maintained
>by the Colegio de Mexico in the Nuestros Ranchos links section under
>Geography - Diccionario Geografico, Historico y Biografico de Mexico. You
>can find his atlas online in the David Rumsey digital map collection which
>is in the same links section of the site under Digital Map Collections.
>
>For the most part, except for larger cities, municipal boundaries more or
>less coincide with parrish boundaries in Mexico. Thus I know there is a
>municipality in Jalisco called San Sebastian del Oeste, which by the way is
>supposed to be a very beautiful ghost town of sorts... old mining town in
>the mountains just southwest of Guadalajara. But as you mention, there are
>several San Sebastians listed in Cuba's dictionary...
>
>One was part of the seventh canton of Ciudad Guzman, and two were part of
>the ninth canton (Mascota), including what is now San Sebastian del Oeste.
>You will see the names of the ranchos that were part of each town. If you
>can figure out where the towns were on the old Cubas map of Jalisco, you
>can then pick them out of a contemporary map (there is an atlas published
>by the Secretaria de Comunicaciones y Transporte also under Digital Maps in
>the links section) and figure out what municipality they would belong to.
>
>I hope this information is helpful.
San Sebastian Records
Candy:
I am glad that you found that information useful. I think that the trip to Jalisco with a handful of notes would be a wonderful research experience.
I noticed reading your response that you had some ancillary questions that I did not answer. For the period that you are investigating, i.e. late 1800s, the civil registry system in Mexico was just in its infancy. It was instituted a few decades earlier but many people resisted it for some time so good coverage is not available until perhaps 1880 or 1890 depending on the location. Those records tend to be pretty good (more detailed than church records in the early years perhaps in an attempt to show their superiority to prompt their adpotion).
Civil records were also always kept in duplicate with one being sent to the state capital (which is usually what the LDS has filmed) and therefore even in case of fire or war causing records to be lost in the locality, the copies survived in the state capital.
Church records in Mexico are kept at the parish level and parishes in smaller towns tend to coincide with municpalities. In the 1880s there were also cantons, which were larger towns that served sort of as county seats... between the state level and the municipal level. These have now been extinguished. A municipality often has multiple towns and certainly many ranchos (rural villages or haciendas) and some of these often have their own chapel or church, however, the baptism and marriage records from sacraments performed in those ancillary chapels would still be at the parrish main temple.
The bishphorics (diocese or archdiocese) also keep marriage records where there are issues that require dispensations. These are very valuable because the most common cause for the need for dispensation was usually cosanguinity and therefore the records expose multiple generations of the contracting parties' genealogies in one single document. These are summarized and indexed for the 16th, 17th and early 18th century in a book by Luz Montejano Hilton available through Borderlands Books.
I hope this info helps. Please let us know what progress you make on finding the correct San Sebastian.
San Sebastian Records
Candy, I'm working on records from Zapotlan El Grande/Ciudad Guzman and there are Plazola family there, not sure they are the ones you're looking for but that surname did live there. I don't have the film any longer but it's worth trying on the IGI for that area of Jalisco.
Linda in B.C.
Candis Carbone wrote:
Thank you so much! After so long running into dead ends, the Mexican Border
Crossing info confirmed that San Sebastian is the correct place. About 10
years ago I ordered some films from the Family History Library but there
were no Plazola names at all in the records. I just need to redefine which
San Sebastian and figure out which municipality it falls under and hope that
they have been filmed. Your explanation has helped me considerably.
I am already thinking that I may be Jalisco bound with my notes in hand!
thanks again.
Candy
>From: arturoramos
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Sebastian Records
>Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 06:48:36 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Candis:
>
>Welcome to the group. It is great to have you here and I am hoping that we
>can help you out getting started with Mexican genealogy.
>
>The best resource for geography in 19th century Mexico is Antonio Garcia
>Cubas. This great Mexican geographer published perhaps the most complete
>and beautiful atlas of Mexico in the 1860s and with it published a
>dictionary of Mexican geography and biography which includes the names of
>almost every rancho (rural village), pueblo and city in Mexico at the time.
>
>You will find a link to an electronic version of his dictionary maintained
>by the Colegio de Mexico in the Nuestros Ranchos links section under
>Geography - Diccionario Geografico, Historico y Biografico de Mexico. You
>can find his atlas online in the David Rumsey digital map collection which
>is in the same links section of the site under Digital Map Collections.
>
>For the most part, except for larger cities, municipal boundaries more or
>less coincide with parrish boundaries in Mexico. Thus I know there is a
>municipality in Jalisco called San Sebastian del Oeste, which by the way is
>supposed to be a very beautiful ghost town of sorts... old mining town in
>the mountains just southwest of Guadalajara. But as you mention, there are
>several San Sebastians listed in Cuba's dictionary...
>
>One was part of the seventh canton of Ciudad Guzman, and two were part of
>the ninth canton (Mascota), including what is now San Sebastian del Oeste.
>You will see the names of the ranchos that were part of each town. If you
>can figure out where the towns were on the old Cubas map of Jalisco, you
>can then pick them out of a contemporary map (there is an atlas published
>by the Secretaria de Comunicaciones y Transporte also under Digital Maps in
>the links section) and figure out what municipality they would belong to.
>
>I hope this information is helpful.
San Sebastian Records
Linda,
Thanks for the tip!
Candy
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Sebastian Records
Candy, I'm working on records from Zapotlan El Grande/Ciudad Guzman and there are Plazola family there, not sure they are the ones you're looking for but that surname did live there. I don't have the film any longer but it's worth trying on the IGI for that area of Jalisco.
Linda in B.C.
Candis Carbone> wrote:
Thank you so much! After so long running into dead ends, the Mexican Border
Crossing info confirmed that San Sebastian is the correct place. About 10
years ago I ordered some films from the Family History Library but there
were no Plazola names at all in the records. I just need to redefine which
San Sebastian and figure out which municipality it falls under and hope that
they have been filmed. Your explanation has helped me considerably.
I am already thinking that I may be Jalisco bound with my notes in hand!
thanks again.
Candy
>From: arturoramos
>Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Sebastian Records
>Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 06:48:36 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Candis:
>
>Welcome to the group. It is great to have you here and I am hoping that we
>can help you out getting started with Mexican genealogy.
>
>The best resource for geography in 19th century Mexico is Antonio Garcia
>Cubas. This great Mexican geographer published perhaps the most complete
>and beautiful atlas of Mexico in the 1860s and with it published a
>dictionary of Mexican geography and biography which includes the names of
>almost every rancho (rural village), pueblo and city in Mexico at the time.
>
>You will find a link to an electronic version of his dictionary maintained
>by the Colegio de Mexico in the Nuestros Ranchos links section under
>Geography - Diccionario Geografico, Historico y Biografico de Mexico. You
>can find his atlas online in the David Rumsey digital map collection which
>is in the same links section of the site under Digital Map Collections.
>
>For the most part, except for larger cities, municipal boundaries more or
>less coincide with parrish boundaries in Mexico. Thus I know there is a
>municipality in Jalisco called San Sebastian del Oeste, which by the way is
>supposed to be a very beautiful ghost town of sorts... old mining town in
>the mountains just southwest of Guadalajara. But as you mention, there are
>several San Sebastians listed in Cuba's dictionary...
>
>One was part of the seventh canton of Ciudad Guzman, and two were part of
>the ninth canton (Mascota), including what is now San Sebastian del Oeste.
>You will see the names of the ranchos that were part of each town. If you
>can figure out where the towns were on the old Cubas map of Jalisco, you
>can then pick them out of a contemporary map (there is an atlas published
>by the Secretaria de Comunicaciones y Transporte also under Digital Maps in
>the links section) and figure out what municipality they would belong to.
>
>I hope this information is helpful.
San Sebastian Records
Candy:
I have in our family tree a Perez-Plazola family from Jalisco (sur de
Jalisco)
Provide your names that you are looking for to see if I can find a
relationship with my data.
Sylvia H Corona
scorona@rcac.org
San Sebastian Records
Sylvia,
I don't have many names. I am helping my friend, Ed Plazola connect to his roots in San Sebastian, Jalisco. His father, Domingo Plazola died in December 1932 in California three months before Ed was born. Ed's mother told him that Domingo was born in San Sebastian near Guadalajara. There are several San Sebastians; I am trying to figure out which municipality the records would be in. I've ordered a couple of Family History Library films with the hope that I get lucky!
This is what I've discovered so far:
unknown Plazola and Jacinta Gonzales (b abt 1860; d 1949 in California) had the following children:
Guadalupe Plazola b bef 1889 in SS; married a Vasquez. The oldest child, Arnulfo Vasquez, was born abt 1903. Jacinta brought 4 other Vasquez child to California in 1921.
Domingo Plazola b 1889 in SS; married Leonor Bedoya in Arizona abt 1915. He supposedly was involved in the Revolution and came to the US under the name Gonzales
Luis Plazola b 1893 in SS; died in California
Jacinta's parents may have been Tuburcio Gonzales and Gusta? Gassia?. Those were the names on her death cetrtificate.
Is it possible to send a request to Guadalajara for a birth in an undesignated San Sebastian in Jalisco?
Just this weekend I've identified some of the grandchildren of Guadalupe Plazola Vasquez living in California. At this point none of them can help me get back to the Mexican information.
Thanks for any ideas, information, and direction!
Candy
----- Original Message -----
From: Sylvia Corona/Rcac
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] San Sebastian Records
Candy:
I have in our family tree a Perez-Plazola family from Jalisco (sur de
Jalisco)
Provide your names that you are looking for to see if I can find a
relationship with my data.
Sylvia H Corona
scorona@rcac.org
Help finding records for the correct San Sebastian, Jalisco
Any one in Rancho's in need of a look-up, with a hard copy within the next 3 days, I will be happy to do the look-up for you.
Helyn
If I am asking inappropriate questions, please forgive me.
Candy wrote:
Hello, I am new to this site so please excuse my ignorance in researching Mexican records. I am familiar with the record system in southern Italy but I have no clue about searching records in Jalisco. I would appreciate any help in learning how the births, deaths, and marriages were reported in Jalisco during the late 1800s. I think that there were prebably two records of each event; one civil and one church. I wonder if the records were kept in each village or were they sent to a bigger, centralized location?
Although I am the one doing the searching, I am doing it for my friend, Edward Bedoya Plazola. He was born in 1934 in Azusa, California a few months after his father died. Although he was the youngest of 14 children, the family didn't talk that much about his father becuase his mother soon remarried.
>From bits of family lore and facts that I have dug up, this is what we know. Domingo Gonzales Plazola was born in 1889 in San Sebastian, Jalisco, Mexico. He was the son of unknown Plazola and Jacinta Gassia? Gonzalez born about 1860. We know that Domingo had a sister, Guadalupe who married a Vasquez, and brother Luis (b 18892). I am sure that there were more siblings. Luis settled in Corcoran, California. It's unknown if Guadalupe lived in the US but many of her children also lived near Corcoran. Jacinta Gonzalez arrived in the US about 1919. She also lived in Corcoran.
Domingo, Ed's father, was involved in the Revolution. About 1916, he felt threatened and decided to go to Arizona. He bagan using the the name, Domingo Gonzalez. He worked in the mines in Ray, Arizona. About 1920 he and his family moved to California.
I would like to find the birth, marriage, and deth records in Jalsico. Ed was told that he father was from San Sebastian near Guadalajara. I found two San Sebastians just south of the city but I can not figure out if both these villages were in existence during the 1880s and where the records might be. There are at leat two other San Sebastians in Jalisco. I have sent for some Family History films for two of the four.
If anyone can direct me to source for learning about the divisons of the Mexican states and record keeping, I would be grateful. As I said, I am new to this site and Mexican research so I am open to any help. If I am asking inappropriate questions, please forgive me.
Thanks,
Candis Carbone