I found 2 more that I would kindly like some feedback on...some of the words just arent clear to me...thank you!!
First doc citation at the top of the page..
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/marriageunabletoread1p…
Second doc citation at the bottom of the page...
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/1traviesa/Ursuladeolaesmarriaget…
does anyone know what it means when they put "viuda" before a persons name??
Rocha De la Madrid
Juan de Villalpando married Francisca de la Rocha on June 11, 1618.
The many guesses that the surname of Juan’s mother Francisca are Mariza, Marica, Marquez, Matiga, Mancha, Marcha are close, but since we find her also using the surname Rocha then I believe that she is from the same family as my mother-in-law’s maternal grandfather “Rocha De la Madrid” aka “Madrid De la Rocha” aka “Rocha” aka “Madrid”
Rick A. Ricci
Villalpando
Robert Martinez
Hello, I am in New Mexico and also descend from Juan de Villalpando on my father's side. I found a record in San Felipe, Guanajuato for a Juan de Villalpando marrying Francisca de la Rocha on June 11, 1618. These are probably Juan's parents. Anyone have more info?
Villalpando Docs...help..Ayuda
It's too bad this isn't in a better format. Some names might be easier to
read if it were. Jpg isn't meant for documents.
What I could make out of the first is the following -
(torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
de ? de olaes y isabel ? ; fueon (torn)
drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
de vielma. y por verdad lo firne en dicho dia
mes y año.
I can't make out the first name of the father of ursula de olae, or the last
name of the mother but it looks like Cos.
It looks like a lot of people need to correct their family tree to show that
Juan de Villalpando Olaes is from León, Guanajuato.
The second document
En veinte y seis dias del Mes de julio de mil (torn)
sientos Y setenta Y quatro en esta iglecia Barro(torn)
de Leon case con lisencia del ? Cura > Don Josep(torn)
de Ulloa con Ursula de Olais viuda de Juan de Vill(torn)
se les dijo missa Y se hisierion las diligencias ?(torn)
manda el Santo Consilio fue su padrindo Antto de herr(torn)
y Doña Maria de herrera -
Viuda means widow and it is after the name of Ursula de Olais [Olaes] saying
she is the widow of Juan de Villalpando. Obviously she remarried with Joseph
de Ulloa
Saludos,
Armando
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 5:20 PM, wrote:
> I found 2 more that I would kindly like some feedback on...some of the
> words just arent clear to me...thank you!!
>
> First doc citation at the top of the page..
>
> http://i30.photobucket.com/**albums/c302/1traviesa/**
> marriageunabletoread1page.jpg
>
> Second doc citation at the bottom of the page...
>
> http://i30.photobucket.com/**albums/c302/1traviesa/**
> UrsuladeolaesmarriagetoJosephd**eUlloa16601page.jpg
>
> does anyone know what it means when they put "viuda" before a persons
> name?? -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
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>
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Villalpando Docs...help..Ayuda
I think the first one is started on another page but the book is out of order and really damaged so I don't know which Villalpando Ursula is marrying. Her parents are Martin de Olaes and Isabel Cortes. I'm searching for her birth record to see if she is Maria Ursula because Maria is on my Juan Villalpando record. And possibly if her son Juan migrated to Jerez. I found another VillAlpando that married a Francisca but her last name is Olaes too. So I'm fully confused. Lol. Who was looking for a Marcos that father is Tomas...I found Marcos birth record in Leon.
malia Hernandez Arias
Villalpando
There are a lot of websites, including a post by Emilie Garcia, that mention
a son of Juan de Villalpando and Ursula Olaes also named Juan de Villalpando
that was a native of la villa de leon, and a soldier of Santa Fe, [New
Mexico] when he married Ana Maria Romero, June 2, 1694.
Since both the name Ursula and the surname Olaes aren't the most common I am
going to assume that she is the same one in the document you provided. Since
the above info also states he was from León, again I am going to make the
assumption that it is the same Ursula de Olaes. Therefore, the groom most
likely is Juan de Villalpando that Ursula de Olaes is marrying.
Armando
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 7:05 PM, wrote:
> I think the first one is started on another page but the book is out of
> order and really damaged so I don't know which Villalpando Ursula is
> marrying. Her parents are Martin de Olaes and Isabel Cortes. I'm searching
> for her birth record to see if she is Maria Ursula because Maria is on my
> Juan Villalpando record. And possibly if her son Juan migrated to Jerez. I
> found another VillAlpando that married a Francisca but her last name is
> Olaes too. So I'm fully confused. Lol. Who was looking for a Marcos that
> father is Tomas...I found Marcos birth record in Leon. malia Hernandez Arias
>
Villalpando
I forgot to mention that the second document shows who Ursula de Olaes
married in the first document. It states it was Juan de Villalpando. His
name has the common abbreviation for Juan which is Juo. Obviously the priest
wanted the two documents near each other and he found space in the preceding
page for her second marriage and as you stated we can see the dates and
years are not in order based on the link you provided.
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
Armando
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Armando wrote:
> There are a lot of websites, including a post by Emilie Garcia, that wrote:
> mention a son of Juan de Villalpando and Ursula Olaes also named Juan de
> Villalpando that was a native of la villa de leon, and a soldier of Santa
> Fe, [New Mexico] when he married Ana Maria Romero, June 2, 1694.
>
> Since both the name Ursula and the surname Olaes aren't the most common I
> am going to assume that she is the same one in the document you provided.
> Since the above info also states he was from León, again I am going to make
> the assumption that it is the same Ursula de Olaes. Therefore, the groom
> most likely is Juan de Villalpando that Ursula de Olaes is marrying.
>
> Armando
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 7:05 PM,
>
>> I think the first one is started on another page but the book is out of
>> order and really damaged so I don't know which Villalpando Ursula is
>> marrying. Her parents are Martin de Olaes and Isabel Cortes. I'm searching
>> for her birth record to see if she is Maria Ursula because Maria is on my
>> Juan Villalpando record. And possibly if her son Juan migrated to Jerez. I
>> found another VillAlpando that married a Francisca but her last name is
>> Olaes too. So I'm fully confused. Lol. Who was looking for a Marcos that
>> father is Tomas...I found Marcos birth record in Leon. malia Hernandez Arias
>>
Villalpando
Hi Amalia,
I'm interested in what you've found so far in the Villalpando family using the Leon Archive. You should publish your findings ASAP. I read you
found Juan and Marcos birth record when were they born? Thank you. Please email me to my new email, mendezdetorres@hotmail.com
Daniel Méndez Camino
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 17:05:44 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Villalpando
>
> I think the first one is started on another page but the book is out of order and really damaged so I don't know which Villalpando Ursula is marrying. Her parents are Martin de Olaes and Isabel Cortes. I'm searching for her birth record to see if she is Maria Ursula because Maria is on my Juan Villalpando record. And possibly if her son Juan migrated to Jerez. I found another VillAlpando that married a Francisca but her last name is Olaes too. So I'm fully confused. Lol. Who was looking for a Marcos that father is Tomas...I found Marcos birth record in Leon.
> malia Hernandez Arias
>
marcos villalpando of leon baptism
Here is the link to his record of baptismin 1649:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S7WF-SRMQ-B9?i=11&wc=3VWP-7… '
"México, Guanajuato, registros parroquiales, 1519-1984," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S7WF-SRMQ-B9?cc=1860831&wc=3VWP… : 20 May 2014), León > Sagrario > Bautismos de españoles 1636-1715, 1718-1748 > image 12 of 598; parroquias Católicas, Guanajuato (Catholic Church parishes, Guanajuato).
I can read that his father is Thomas de Villalpando but I can only read Maria for his mother.
Padrinos are Juan de Villalpando and Maria de Aguirre (i think).
Regards
Denise
marcos villalpando of leon baptism
Hi Denise,
Thanks for posting the link to this record. I have seen this one before, the letter here is not the best, mostly faded I think. If you compare other records you will see she is María Vélez or María Veliz depending on the record.
Daniel MdTC
Francisca ??
The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____ Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps it the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a capital M so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an I with a Z a? help!!
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is the document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to "figure-out."
Pat Silva Corbera
Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
www.patriciajcorbera.com
----- Original Message -----
From: hernandezmol@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____ Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps it the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a capital M so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an I with a Z a? help!!
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
(torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
mes y año.
Armando
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corberawrote:
> Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is the
> document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
> "figure-out."
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
>
>
>
> Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
>
> www.patriciajcorbera.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____
> Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps it
> the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a capital M
> so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an I
> with a Z a? help!!
>
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Sorry Pat, thank you Armando..i have googled so many variations of what i can make out...any input will be appreciated.
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Amalia,
This is a tough one, I looked at it and couldn't make anything out.
Alicia
________________________________
From: "hernandezmol@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
Sorry Pat, thank you Armando..i have googled so many variations of what i can make out...any input will be appreciated.
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Amalia,
Since my husband is descended from the Villalpandos, I have gotten involved in trying to find Francisca's surname, because, like you said, "she is driving me crazy!"
I found a Francisco Villalpando born to a Juan Villalpando and a Teresa Lopez in Leon, on 14 Apr 1681, and I found a marriage for a Jn. de Villalpando and a Franca. de la Rocha, in San Felipe, Guanajuato on 11 Jun 1618, but the images for that year are not online. I sent a message to Family Search to tell them they indexed it, but didnt put up the image. They do that a lot, or vice versa---you find an image that is not indexed.
I looked at the surname on the image for Juan and Ursula, and it looks like Noriega to me, but that is probably because I am descended from Noriegas. The priest's name is Marquez, another of my ancestors, so if you look at the M in his signature, it doesn't look like the first letter of "marega" or whatever that is on the document.
By the way, I can't find this marriage in the index. What is the date----August ?, 1672?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:31:17 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> Amalia,
>
> This is a tough one, I looked at it and couldn't make anything out.
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "hernandezmol@msn.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> Sorry Pat, thank you Armando..i have googled so many variations of what i can make out...any input will be appreciated.
>
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Emilie,
sorry i overlooked your post...I found that marriage record for Juan and Francisca it was indexed but out of order hard to locate. it doesn't say much but their names. but now that i know that her name is Francisca Marcha, im wondering if it is this de la Rocha. Really close. More investigating for me! lol thanks for helping...
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Thank you Armando for sharing this information with me. I'll get back to you and Amalia with my input once I view the document and film...
Pat Silva Corbera
Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
www.patriciajcorbera.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:31:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
(torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
mes y año.
Armando
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corberawrote:
> Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is the
> document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
> "figure-out."
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
>
>
>
> Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
>
> www.patriciajcorbera.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____
> Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps it
> the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a capital M
> so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an I
> with a Z a? help!!
>
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Armando, Amelia and Members,
I think the first letter is as you said "M" I think what looks like Mas is not "s" but a "t" looks the same as in "ja da funtos"...My guess the name is Matiga...if that's even a surname...
At first I thought the surname was Marques...but after looking at the Priest's signature, they didn't look the same to me.
Pat Silva corbera
Very intersting, especially the surname Villalpando...I've not seen that before.
Have any children of Ursula and Juan been located, hoping that the AP and AM names are mentioned?
Papagaia's Journey of Discovery
patriciajcorbera.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Corbera"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:29:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
Thank you Armando for sharing this information with me. I'll get back to you and Amalia with my input once I view the document and film...
Pat Silva Corbera
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:31:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
(torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
mes y año.
Armando
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corberawrote:
> Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is the
> document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
> "figure-out."
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
>
>
>
> Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
>
> www.patriciajcorbera.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____
> Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps it
> the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a capital M
> so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an I
> with a Z a? help!!
>
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
It is very rare in that era to have the AP and AM named in the baptisms.
From what I have seen it started around the beginning of the 19th century
for a little while then it became very common. The entry after the one in
question is from 20 agosto 62. The top of the next page says 1666. Therefore
the first entry is probably 20 agosto 1662.
Villalpando isn't as rare as you might thing.. It would come up quite often
on NR and also familysearch when I look for Villalobos. Like a very large
number of surnames this seems to be a topónimo coming from the town
Villalpando, Zamora, Castilla y León, España
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villalpando
I came to the conclusion that the this Juan de Villalpando and Ursula de
Olaes are the parents of the Juan Villalpando that married Maria Romero June
2, 1694 in Santa Fe, New Mexico posted the following sites:
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.villalpando/151/mb.ashx
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.weurope.spain.spain-regions.casti…
A tree for that family can be found at Geneanet
http://gw0.geneanet.org/bercier?b=bercier&lang=en&pz=susanne&nz=goulet&…
It is a y for "ya difuntos" and not a j.
I think I finally figured it out. Mariqa which is the same as Marica.
http://www.linajes.net/esq22.php?nombre=marica&submit=Buscar
There is an hacienda Mariquita near San Juan de los Lagos and Lagos de
Moreno.
Armando.
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Pat Corberawrote:
> Armando, Amelia and Members,
>
> I think the first letter is as you said "M" I think what looks like Mas is
> not "s" but a "t" looks the same as in "ja da funtos"...My guess the name
> is Matiga...if that's even a surname...
>
> At first I thought the surname was Marques...but after looking at the
> Priest's signature, they didn't look the same to me.
>
> Pat Silva corbera
>
> Very intersting, especially the surname Villalpando...I've not seen that
> before.
> Have any children of Ursula and Juan been located, hoping that the AP and
> AM names are mentioned?
>
>
>
> Papagaia's Journey of Discovery
> patriciajcorbera.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pat Corbera"
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:29:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> Thank you Armando for sharing this information with me. I'll get back to
> you and Amalia with my input once I view the document and film...
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Armando"
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:31:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
>
> https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
>
> I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
>
> (torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
> ? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
> de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
> drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
> de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
> mes y año.
>
> Armando
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corbera
>
> > Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is the
> > document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
> > "figure-out."
> >
> > Pat Silva Corbera
> >
> >
> >
> > Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
> >
> > www.patriciajcorbera.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> >
> > The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____
> > Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps
> it
> > the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a
> capital M
> > so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an
> I
> > with a Z a? help!!
> >
> > Amalia Hernandez Arias
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Francisca ??
This is to correct some errors on my previous post.
The AP and AM in the baptisms became common after the middle of the 19th
century. The first entry is probably before 20 agosto 1662.
Armando
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Armando wrote:
> It is very rare in that era to have the AP and AM named in the baptisms.wrote:
> From what I have seen it started around the beginning of the 19th century
> for a little while then it became very common. The entry after the one in
> question is from 20 agosto 62. The top of the next page says 1666. Therefore
> the first entry is probably 20 agosto 1662.
>
> Villalpando isn't as rare as you might thing.. It would come up quite often
> on NR and also familysearch when I look for Villalobos. Like a very large
> number of surnames this seems to be a topónimo coming from the town
> Villalpando, Zamora, Castilla y León, España
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villalpando
>
> I came to the conclusion that the this Juan de Villalpando and Ursula de
> Olaes are the parents of the Juan Villalpando that married Maria Romero June
> 2, 1694 in Santa Fe, New Mexico posted the following sites:
> http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.villalpando/151/mb.ashx
>
> http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.weurope.spain.spain-regions.casti…
>
>
> A tree for that family can be found at Geneanet
>
> http://gw0.geneanet.org/bercier?b=bercier&lang=en&pz=susanne&nz=goulet&…
>
> It is a y for "ya difuntos" and not a j.
>
> I think I finally figured it out. Mariqa which is the same as Marica.
> http://www.linajes.net/esq22.php?nombre=marica&submit=Buscar
>
> There is an hacienda Mariquita near San Juan de los Lagos and Lagos de
> Moreno.
>
> Armando.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Pat Corbera
>
>> Armando, Amelia and Members,
>>
>> I think the first letter is as you said "M" I think what looks like Mas is
>> not "s" but a "t" looks the same as in "ja da funtos"...My guess the name
>> is Matiga...if that's even a surname...
>>
>> At first I thought the surname was Marques...but after looking at the
>> Priest's signature, they didn't look the same to me.
>>
>> Pat Silva corbera
>>
>> Very intersting, especially the surname Villalpando...I've not seen that
>> before.
>> Have any children of Ursula and Juan been located, hoping that the AP and
>> AM names are mentioned?
>>
>>
>>
>> Papagaia's Journey of Discovery
>> patriciajcorbera.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pat Corbera"
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:29:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>>
>> Thank you Armando for sharing this information with me. I'll get back to
>> you and Amalia with my input once I view the document and film...
>>
>> Pat Silva Corbera
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Armando"
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:31:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>>
>> The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
>>
>> https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
>>
>> I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
>>
>> (torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
>> ? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
>> de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
>> drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
>> de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
>> mes y año.
>>
>> Armando
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corbera
>>
>> > Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is the
>> > document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
>> > "figure-out."
>> >
>> > Pat Silva Corbera
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
>> >
>> > www.patriciajcorbera.com
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: hernandezmol@msn.com
>> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
>> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>> >
>> > The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____
>> > Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or
>> perhaps it
>> > the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a
>> capital M
>> > so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or
>> an I
>> > with a Z a? help!!
>> >
>> > Amalia Hernandez Arias
>> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Mancha
I found some other records by the same Padre and I think the last name is Mancha. I found a Francisca De la Mancha that got a license to Nueva Epana with her parents in 1564.
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Mancha
If you compare the names and words with an r such as padrinos, por, verdad,
and firme and the words with an n such as difuntos, con, padrinos (again),
and año you can see they are different and it look more like mariqa than it
does like mancha.
You can also use the very next entry of Mathias de Marmolejo and Lorenza de
la Cruz to compare the same letters.
Armando
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 7:01 PM, wrote:
> I found some other records by the same Padre and I think the last name is
> Mancha. I found a Francisca De la Mancha that got a license to Nueva Epana
> with her parents in 1564.
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Armando,
The tree you found in Geneanet is one that assumed that the Leon referred to in the Archives of New Mexico was the one in "Espana" but now we know it was Leon, Guanajuato, and it is in those archives that they got the parents of Juan who married that Romero.
Talking about haciendas, is there a Hacienda Bareza or Barreza in Guanajuato? I think that for Francisca, the "mareza" might not be her surname but the place where she originated from. They used to put those places in the records, such as "originaria de" etc.
Also, what is that word written in the margin? del--inta?
Emilie
> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 16:55:50 -0500wrote:
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> It is very rare in that era to have the AP and AM named in the baptisms.
> From what I have seen it started around the beginning of the 19th century
> for a little while then it became very common. The entry after the one in
> question is from 20 agosto 62. The top of the next page says 1666. Therefore
> the first entry is probably 20 agosto 1662.
>
> Villalpando isn't as rare as you might thing.. It would come up quite often
> on NR and also familysearch when I look for Villalobos. Like a very large
> number of surnames this seems to be a topónimo coming from the town
> Villalpando, Zamora, Castilla y León, España
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villalpando
>
> I came to the conclusion that the this Juan de Villalpando and Ursula de
> Olaes are the parents of the Juan Villalpando that married Maria Romero June
> 2, 1694 in Santa Fe, New Mexico posted the following sites:
> http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.villalpando/151/mb.ashx
> http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.weurope.spain.spain-regions.casti…
>
>
> A tree for that family can be found at Geneanet
> http://gw0.geneanet.org/bercier?b=bercier&lang=en&pz=susanne&nz=goulet&…
>
> It is a y for "ya difuntos" and not a j.
>
> I think I finally figured it out. Mariqa which is the same as Marica.
> http://www.linajes.net/esq22.php?nombre=marica&submit=Buscar
>
> There is an hacienda Mariquita near San Juan de los Lagos and Lagos de
> Moreno.
>
> Armando.
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Pat Corbera
>
> > Armando, Amelia and Members,
> >
> > I think the first letter is as you said "M" I think what looks like Mas is
> > not "s" but a "t" looks the same as in "ja da funtos"...My guess the name
> > is Matiga...if that's even a surname...
> >
> > At first I thought the surname was Marques...but after looking at the
> > Priest's signature, they didn't look the same to me.
> >
> > Pat Silva corbera
> >
> > Very intersting, especially the surname Villalpando...I've not seen that
> > before.
> > Have any children of Ursula and Juan been located, hoping that the AP and
> > AM names are mentioned?
> >
> >
> >
> > Papagaia's Journey of Discovery
> > patriciajcorbera.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pat Corbera"
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:29:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> >
> > Thank you Armando for sharing this information with me. I'll get back to
> > you and Amalia with my input once I view the document and film...
> >
> > Pat Silva Corbera
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Armando"
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:31:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> >
> > The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
> >
> > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
> >
> > I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
> >
> > (torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
> > ? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
> > de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
> > drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
> > de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
> > mes y año.
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corbera
> >
> > > Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is the
> > > document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
> > > "figure-out."
> > >
> > > Pat Silva Corbera
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
> > >
> > > www.patriciajcorbera.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > >
> > > The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____
> > > Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps
> > it
> > > the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a
> > capital M
> > > so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an
> > I
> > > with a Z a? help!!
> > >
> > > Amalia Hernandez Arias
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Francisca ??
Emilie,
Yes I know that was the same one you were referring to but I posted it so
people can where the info can be found. It isn't "mareza" it is Mariqa which
is the same as Marica.
http://www.linajes.net/esq22.php?nombre=Marica&submit=Buscar
It may very well be referring to a place. I can't find anyone with the
surname Mariqa or Marica in familysearch.
Armando
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Emilie Garciawrote:
>
> Armando,
>
> The tree you found in Geneanet is one that assumed that the Leon referred
> to in the Archives of New Mexico was the one in "Espana" but now we know it
> was Leon, Guanajuato, and it is in those archives that they got the parents
> of Juan who married that Romero.
>
> Talking about haciendas, is there a Hacienda Bareza or Barreza in
> Guanajuato? I think that for Francisca, the "mareza" might not be her
> surname but the place where she originated from. They used to put those
> places in the records, such as "originaria de" etc.
>
> Also, what is that word written in the margin? del--inta?
>
> Emilie
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 16:55:50 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> >
> > It is very rare in that era to have the AP and AM named in the baptisms.
> > From what I have seen it started around the beginning of the 19th century
> > for a little while then it became very common. The entry after the one in
> > question is from 20 agosto 62. The top of the next page says 1666.
> Therefore
> > the first entry is probably 20 agosto 1662.
> >
> > Villalpando isn't as rare as you might thing.. It would come up quite
> often
> > on NR and also familysearch when I look for Villalobos. Like a very large
> > number of surnames this seems to be a topónimo coming from the town
> > Villalpando, Zamora, Castilla y León, España
> > http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villalpando
> >
> > I came to the conclusion that the this Juan de Villalpando and Ursula de
> > Olaes are the parents of the Juan Villalpando that married Maria Romero
> June
> > 2, 1694 in Santa Fe, New Mexico posted the following sites:
> > http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.villalpando/151/mb.ashx
> >
> http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.weurope.spain.spain-regions.casti…
> >
> >
> > A tree for that family can be found at Geneanet
> >
> http://gw0.geneanet.org/bercier?b=bercier&lang=en&pz=susanne&nz=goulet&…
> >
> > It is a y for "ya difuntos" and not a j.
> >
> > I think I finally figured it out. Mariqa which is the same as Marica.
> > http://www.linajes.net/esq22.php?nombre=marica&submit=Buscar
> >
> > There is an hacienda Mariquita near San Juan de los Lagos and Lagos de
> > Moreno.
> >
> > Armando.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Pat Corbera
> >
> > > Armando, Amelia and Members,
> > >
> > > I think the first letter is as you said "M" I think what looks like Mas
> is
> > > not "s" but a "t" looks the same as in "ja da funtos"...My guess the
> name
> > > is Matiga...if that's even a surname...
> > >
> > > At first I thought the surname was Marques...but after looking at the
> > > Priest's signature, they didn't look the same to me.
> > >
> > > Pat Silva corbera
> > >
> > > Very intersting, especially the surname Villalpando...I've not seen
> that
> > > before.
> > > Have any children of Ursula and Juan been located, hoping that the AP
> and
> > > AM names are mentioned?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Papagaia's Journey of Discovery
> > > patriciajcorbera.com
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Pat Corbera"
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:29:07 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > >
> > > Thank you Armando for sharing this information with me. I'll get back
> to
> > > you and Amalia with my input once I view the document and film...
> > >
> > > Pat Silva Corbera
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Armando"
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:31:45 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > >
> > > The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
> > >
> > >
> https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
> > >
> > > I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
> > >
> > > (torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
> > > ? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
> > > de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
> > > drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
> > > de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
> > > mes y año.
> > >
> > > Armando
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corbera <
> PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is
> the
> > > > document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
> > > > "figure-out."
> > > >
> > > > Pat Silva Corbera
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
> > > >
> > > > www.patriciajcorbera.com
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> > > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
> > > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > > >
> > > > The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca
> _____
> > > > Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or
> perhaps
> > > it
> > > > the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a
> > > capital M
> > > > so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g
> or an
> > > I
> > > > with a Z a? help!!
> > > >
> > > > Amalia Hernandez Arias
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Francisca ??
Emilie,
What looks like word in the margin is actually from the previous page and it
is says Auto de Visita.
Armando
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Emilie Garciawrote:
>
> Armando,
>
> Also, what is that word written in the margin? del--inta?
>
> Emilie
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 16:55:50 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> >
> > It is very rare in that era to have the AP and AM named in the baptisms.
> > From what I have seen it started around the beginning of the 19th century
> > for a little while then it became very common. The entry after the one in
> > question is from 20 agosto 62. The top of the next page says 1666.
> Therefore
> > the first entry is probably 20 agosto 1662.
> >
> > Villalpando isn't as rare as you might thing.. It would come up quite
> often
> > on NR and also familysearch when I look for Villalobos. Like a very large
> > number of surnames this seems to be a topónimo coming from the town
> > Villalpando, Zamora, Castilla y León, España
> > http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villalpando
> >
> > I came to the conclusion that the this Juan de Villalpando and Ursula de
> > Olaes are the parents of the Juan Villalpando that married Maria Romero
> June
> > 2, 1694 in Santa Fe, New Mexico posted the following sites:
> > http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.villalpando/151/mb.ashx
> >
> http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.weurope.spain.spain-regions.casti…
> >
> >
> > A tree for that family can be found at Geneanet
> >
> http://gw0.geneanet.org/bercier?b=bercier&lang=en&pz=susanne&nz=goulet&…
> >
> > It is a y for "ya difuntos" and not a j.
> >
> > I think I finally figured it out. Mariqa which is the same as Marica.
> > http://www.linajes.net/esq22.php?nombre=marica&submit=Buscar
> >
> > There is an hacienda Mariquita near San Juan de los Lagos and Lagos de
> > Moreno.
> >
> > Armando.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Pat Corbera
> >
> > > Armando, Amelia and Members,
> > >
> > > I think the first letter is as you said "M" I think what looks like Mas
> is
> > > not "s" but a "t" looks the same as in "ja da funtos"...My guess the
> name
> > > is Matiga...if that's even a surname...
> > >
> > > At first I thought the surname was Marques...but after looking at the
> > > Priest's signature, they didn't look the same to me.
> > >
> > > Pat Silva corbera
> > >
> > > Very intersting, especially the surname Villalpando...I've not seen
> that
> > > before.
> > > Have any children of Ursula and Juan been located, hoping that the AP
> and
> > > AM names are mentioned?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Papagaia's Journey of Discovery
> > > patriciajcorbera.com
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Pat Corbera"
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:29:07 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > >
> > > Thank you Armando for sharing this information with me. I'll get back
> to
> > > you and Amalia with my input once I view the document and film...
> > >
> > > Pat Silva Corbera
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Armando"
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:31:45 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > >
> > > The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
> > >
> > >
> https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
> > >
> > > I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
> > >
> > > (torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
> > > ? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
> > > de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
> > > drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
> > > de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
> > > mes y año.
> > >
> > > Armando
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corbera <
> PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is
> the
> > > > document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
> > > > "figure-out."
> > > >
> > > > Pat Silva Corbera
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
> > > >
> > > > www.patriciajcorbera.com
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> > > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
> > > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > > >
> > > > The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca
> _____
> > > > Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or
> perhaps
> > > it
> > > > the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a
> > > capital M
> > > > so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g
> or an
> > > I
> > > > with a Z a? help!!
> > > >
> > > > Amalia Hernandez Arias
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Francisca ??
Yes, I realized after my last post that the Juan Villalpando record is torn around the edges so I highlighted what was in the torn areas so separate that from what was written in the pages under that one.
Also, when I was looking in the Guanajuato records for San Felipe and Leon of the time, I ran across some surnames that look like the one that might be Francisca's: Marega, Moriga, Maruga, Mariga, etc but none turned out to be a Francisca. I had never heard of such a surname.
Emilie
> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 18:09:42 -0500wrote:
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
>
> Emilie,
>
> What looks like word in the margin is actually from the previous page and it
> is says Auto de Visita.
>
> Armando
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Emilie Garcia
>
> >
> > Armando,
> >
> > Also, what is that word written in the margin? del--inta?
> >
> > Emilie
> >
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 16:55:50 -0500
> > > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > >
> > > It is very rare in that era to have the AP and AM named in the baptisms.
> > > From what I have seen it started around the beginning of the 19th century
> > > for a little while then it became very common. The entry after the one in
> > > question is from 20 agosto 62. The top of the next page says 1666.
> > Therefore
> > > the first entry is probably 20 agosto 1662.
> > >
> > > Villalpando isn't as rare as you might thing.. It would come up quite
> > often
> > > on NR and also familysearch when I look for Villalobos. Like a very large
> > > number of surnames this seems to be a topónimo coming from the town
> > > Villalpando, Zamora, Castilla y León, España
> > > http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villalpando
> > >
> > > I came to the conclusion that the this Juan de Villalpando and Ursula de
> > > Olaes are the parents of the Juan Villalpando that married Maria Romero
> > June
> > > 2, 1694 in Santa Fe, New Mexico posted the following sites:
> > > http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.villalpando/151/mb.ashx
> > >
> > http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.weurope.spain.spain-regions.casti…
> > >
> > >
> > > A tree for that family can be found at Geneanet
> > >
> > http://gw0.geneanet.org/bercier?b=bercier&lang=en&pz=susanne&nz=goulet&…
> > >
> > > It is a y for "ya difuntos" and not a j.
> > >
> > > I think I finally figured it out. Mariqa which is the same as Marica.
> > > http://www.linajes.net/esq22.php?nombre=marica&submit=Buscar
> > >
> > > There is an hacienda Mariquita near San Juan de los Lagos and Lagos de
> > > Moreno.
> > >
> > > Armando.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Pat Corbera
> > >
> > > > Armando, Amelia and Members,
> > > >
> > > > I think the first letter is as you said "M" I think what looks like Mas
> > is
> > > > not "s" but a "t" looks the same as in "ja da funtos"...My guess the
> > name
> > > > is Matiga...if that's even a surname...
> > > >
> > > > At first I thought the surname was Marques...but after looking at the
> > > > Priest's signature, they didn't look the same to me.
> > > >
> > > > Pat Silva corbera
> > > >
> > > > Very intersting, especially the surname Villalpando...I've not seen
> > that
> > > > before.
> > > > Have any children of Ursula and Juan been located, hoping that the AP
> > and
> > > > AM names are mentioned?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Papagaia's Journey of Discovery
> > > > patriciajcorbera.com
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Pat Corbera"
> > > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 1:29:07 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > > >
> > > > Thank you Armando for sharing this information with me. I'll get back
> > to
> > > > you and Amalia with my input once I view the document and film...
> > > >
> > > > Pat Silva Corbera
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Armando"
> > > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 4:31:45 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > > >
> > > > The entry she is speaking about is at the top left of the following
> > > >
> > > >
> > https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
> > > >
> > > > I can't make out Francisca's last name either.
> > > >
> > > > (torn) ? Juo [Juan] de villalpando y franca [francisca] (torn)
> > > > ? ya difuntos con ursula de olaes(torn)
> > > > de martin de olaes y isabel cortes fueron (torn)
> > > > drinos [padrinos] el alcalde nicolas de villalpando (torn)
> > > > de vielma y por verdad lo firme en dicho dia
> > > > mes y año.
> > > >
> > > > Armando
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Pat Corbera <
> > PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Sorry if I missed previous exchanges on your question...but where is
> > the
> > > > > document located (online films ?)that you're viewing and trying to
> > > > > "figure-out."
> > > > >
> > > > > Pat Silva Corbera
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Papagaia's Journey of Discovry
> > > > >
> > > > > www.patriciajcorbera.com
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: hernandezmol@msn.com
> > > > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:00:55 PM
> > > > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Francisca ??
> > > > >
> > > > > The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca
> > _____
> > > > > Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or
> > perhaps
> > > > it
> > > > > the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a
> > > > capital M
> > > > > so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g
> > or an
> > > > I
> > > > > with a Z a? help!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Amalia Hernandez Arias
> > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Francisca ??
I do know that the earliest I have seen mentioning grandparents occurred around 1770 in the Mexico City records. By 1770 the church began mentioning grandparent's names. This really helped me reconstruct the mexican "nobility" and their families trees. Some marriage records of Guadalajara actually contain grandparent's names, eventhough they were not baptismal records. You'll find many surprises within genealogy.
Daniel Méndez Camino
Francisca mystery solved
I finally found a handwriting letter match. Juan de Villalpando's mothers name was definitely Francisca de la Marcha see the following
original
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860831&…
sample 2nd baptismal of Luis (left hand side) look at the word dicho dia, the ch is exactly like the ch in Marcha.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-881121-1-39?cc=1860831&wc…
I knew I researched that last name for a reason...thanks all!!!
Amalia Hernandez-Arias
Francisca mystery solved
Amalia,
That's a great find. Friar Jospeh Marquez also wrote dicho dia mes y año in
the same unconventional way for the marriage of Juan de Villalpando but
since he didn't do it for the one following the marriage of Juan de
Villalpando I had felt it is best to assume it was an accident until it
could be shown he had repeated the same writing style. Since his writing
style is somewhat inconsistent he could have wrote r instead of n in the
case of the surname of Francisca making it de la Mancha as you had once
suspected. It is unfortunate there hasn't been any other records found that
mention Juan de Villalpando and Francisca de la Mancha or Marcha. It is hard
to even find the surname de la Mancha in Guanajuato in the online search.
Manchola shows up a lot but not Mancha. Finding Francisca as a godmother in
a baptism or death record could be helpful. As far Rocha, even though the
letter m written by Friar Joseph Marquez isn't consistent I never see where
an r looks like an m.
Armando
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:40 AM, wrote:
> I finally found a handwriting letter match. Juan de Villalpando's mothers
> name was definitely Francisca de la Marcha see the following
> original
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/**MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?**
> cc=1860831&wc=11690523
> sample 2nd baptismal of Luis (left hand side) look at the word dicho dia,
> the ch is exactly like the ch in Marcha. https://familysearch.org/pal:/**
> MM9.3.1/TH-1940-881121-1-39?**cc=1860831&wc=11689878
>
> I knew I researched that last name for a reason...thanks all!!!
>
> Amalia Hernandez-Arias
Francisca mystery solved
Yes Armando that is the only records i have found are Juan and Francisca de la Rocha im just wondering how he was real off on everything else if he might have just mis wrote it...but im still looking ...i started going backwards now. locating the first Villalpandos that came to Nueva Espana and tracing them up. I think I might have found a record in Guanajuato of an Alonso de Villalpando(1610 natural de Medina del Campo, which i located a Alonso in the PARES records coming to Nueva Espana in 1560) his son Simon (Arias) got married but he took the name Arias of his mother Faustina Arias de Bedoya(Bedoya vecinos de Camora figured out it was Zamora, Michoacan), , its just a task to link him to Juan im missing a span of about 50 years, but all the docs show Alonso in Leon (casa de Alonso de Villalpando), I read that back in them times they tend to take the last name of the more prestigeous parent. which Arias de Bedoya was quite up there in status.
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca mystery solved
Dear Amalia,
I find this post very interesting! My father descends from the Arias de Vedoya family of the Obispado de Michoacan, about three times to be exact. I have the oldes member who I believe to be the patriarch Juan Gomez-Arias de Vedoya who was the Alcalde Mayor of Zamora was likely born ca. 1550 possibly Spain and married Ana de Cardenas. It would be interesting to know how this Faustina Arias de Vedoya is related, very likely his daughter due to the time frame and location. The Arias de Vedoya are known to have settled in Zamora, one of the founders. They quickly married into families suchas Mendez de Torres (my family), Ochoa-Garibay, Martin Barragan, Torres Guerrero.
Do you have anymore info on Faustina Arias de Vedoya, Alonso de Villalpando or Simon Arias? There is a probability the Villalpando of Leon are related to those of Zamora. The Obispado de Michoacan functioned similarily as the Nueva Galicia. People often traveled around and settled, and married creating this very small gene pool of Spaniards. If you take Los Altos de Jalisco, it only took about 100 years (1600-1700) for most families be intertwined by blood and through marriage for most. Also, when any "new" families especially peninsulares arrived they quickly married for the most part and joined this little aristocracy of Spanish families. You can see this happen by the marriages of children of peninsular born men and woman who arrived in Los Altos, families such as Fernandez de San Salvador, Azuela de San Pelayo, etc.
Daniel Mendez Camino
Francisca mystery solved
Daniel. I only have that marriage record I came across in Guanajuato, also I found a marriage document for a daughter of Simon Arias and Maria Suarez after that my trail goes cold. Other than all the records I extracted from Zamora of the Arias de Bedoya and Gomez de Bedoya I have no other leads. I found a exerpt in a book though about Gomez de Bedoya and im confused....it states that in 1561 Francisco Gomez Arias de Bedoya had land and he gave some of it to his parents which were Arias de Bedoya and Maria Avina, did they not know the fathers first name or was Arias it?? I want to see who the parents of (Faustina)Arias de Bedoya are. I also found several early records in Zamora for a Beatris Arias de Bedoya and a Pedro. But nothing that tells me who their parents are.
Alonso de Villalpando seems to me had numerous children but the late 1500's records are scarce. I did find an article that is about Penjamo (Irapuato now) that Alonso was a vecino de La Calera for 55 years, it was a testimony he gave in 1658. So I know it has to be the same Alonso that came from Medina del Campo. I would say the same that all the Villalpandos in Guanajato decended from the same clan.
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Amalia,
I just realized that you might be able to find out more about all the people
involved in this marriage in the Información matrimonial 1637-1734. They are
done before a marriage to ensure both parties are complying with the rules
of marriage and are more detailed than the marriage entries and since some
info is repeated what can't be read in one entry can be in another. First
there is a declaration of the groom then a declaration of the bride then
three different witnesses stating there is nothing to their knowledge to
prevent the marriage. Here is a link to that volume
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20581-6217-43?cc=1860…
You should also search the Defunciones 1695-1773
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20581-6217-43?cc=1860…
If you or anyone else finds anything on the families Moreno de Ortega,
Galván de Rojas, or Villalobos or any family that has ties to la Villa de
Santa María de los Lagos please let me know.
Armando
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 5:00 PM, wrote:
> The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____
> Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps it
> the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a capital M
> so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an I
> with a Z a? help!!
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
Francisca ??
Scratch my previous post. I forgot your entry was from León and the ones I
mentioned are from San Felipe.
Armando
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Armando wrote:
> Amalia, wrote:
>
> I just realized that you might be able to find out more about all the
> people involved in this marriage in the Información matrimonial 1637-1734.
> They are done before a marriage to ensure both parties are complying with
> the rules of marriage and are more detailed than the marriage entries and
> since some info is repeated what can't be read in one entry can be in
> another. First there is a declaration of the groom then a declaration of the
> bride then three different witnesses stating there is nothing to their
> knowledge to prevent the marriage. Here is a link to that volume
> https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20581-6217-43?cc=1860…
>
> You should also search the Defunciones 1695-1773
> https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20581-6217-43?cc=1860…
>
> If you or anyone else finds anything on the families Moreno de Ortega,
> Galván de Rojas, or Villalobos or any family that has ties to la Villa de
> Santa María de los Lagos please let me know.
>
> Armando
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 5:00 PM,
>
>> The mother of Juan is driving me crazy...it looks like Francisca _____
>> Mariza. Anyone heard of any spanish names similar to this one or perhaps it
>> the ending to what was torn off on the edge...but it starts with a capital M
>> so im assuming thats her complete last name..Mar or Mas is that a g or an I
>> with a Z a? help!!
>> Amalia Hernandez Arias
Viuda
Nancy Blanche Perez
Viuda means widow, also abbreviated as vd.
source...
Sorry guys...these are also from Leon, Guanajuato, Iglesia Sagrario matrimonios, around 1662 and 1674. Trying to see If i can find something where they migrated to Jerez..
Thank you again
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Sources
Amalia
Could you give a full reference, including image number?
Thank you.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Sources
Its Leon Guanajuato Sagrario 1672. Page 9 on familysearch.org Matrimonios..
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Sources
The address of the website, URL, of each document at FamilySearch can be
copied and pasted into the the messages. Each page has it's own specific
address. It's makes it much easier for those that want to help.
Armando
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 6:57 PM, wrote:
> Its Leon Guanajuato Sagrario 1672. Page 9 on familysearch.orgMatrimonios..
> Amalia Hernandez Arias
>
Sources
Ohh yeah.. gotcha.. that was right under my nose.. thank you!! This is the important one..
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20123-20733-8?cc=1860…
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Sources
Amalia
Thank you!
One of the advantages of having the full citation is that a larger image can be saved. From the Family Search page, the image is about 2.4M, which is considerably larger than the one you had posted. This image can then be made much larger, and easier to read.
The software I use for viewing/printing images is Picassa 3. This software is free from the Picassa website.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
A thought on the Villalpando documents
Amalia
I looked at the record on image 9; it seems to be an incomplete record, or perhaps not a standard marriage record. True, there are some missing parts of the page, but if it were a complete record, there should be something in the margin that I think would have been larger than the missing piece.
The record at the bottom of image 8 seems to be related. I noticed that some of the other records read "case y vele", but this one reads only "case."
Perhaps the image 9 record is actually the "vele" portion of the marriage. However, this word does not seem to be in the fragment of the page.
My interest in the Villalpando family is that my wife descends from Tomas (II) de Villalpando and Maria de Jaen who were married in Aguascalientes. This Tomas (II) is the son of Tomas (I) from Leon.
Tomas (I) is also the father of Marcos de Villalpando who married Maria Lopez in Leon, in 1680.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Ayuda
Saludos para todos.
Busco informaciòn sobre el Matrimonio de Fco Alexo De La Paz con Ana De Mendoza
o cualquier informaciòn sobre Alexo o Ana De Mendoza Aproximadamente en 1700.
El ùltimo documento encontrado es el Acta de Matrimonio de Alejo De La Paz y Casilda Gutièrrez Hijo de Fco Alexo y Ana De Mendoza
en Ayotlàn Año de 1731.
Gracias Roberto De La Paz.
Ayuda
Roberto,
Encontre a un Francisco Alexo Pax con Ana de Mendoza y tienen por lo menos
un hijo Francisco Pax Mendoza nacido 23 de Marzo 1714 en San Agustin Ayo El
Chico, Jalisco [batch #C602837 (1682-1717) serial # 03443 film #0280668].
Que pienzas?
Esther Jordan Lopez
2011/10/9 Roberto de la Paz Loza
>
> Saludos para todos.
> Busco informaciòn sobre el Matrimonio de Fco Alexo De La Paz con Ana De
> Mendoza
> o cualquier informaciòn sobre Alexo o Ana De Mendoza Aproximadamente en
> 1700.
> El ùltimo documento encontrado es el Acta de Matrimonio de Alejo De La Paz
> y Casilda Gutièrrez Hijo de Fco Alexo y Ana De Mendoza
> en Ayotlàn Año de 1731.
>
> Gracias Roberto De La Paz.
ayuda
Estoy atorado en la busqueda de mis ancestros y busco la ayuda de ustedes primos para encontrar ano y lugar de ascendencia de juan jose padilla esposo de juana eligia gonsalez ruvio, padres de jose maria padilla nacido el 20 nov de 1789 en arandas jalisco casado con barbara de los dolores en santa maria de arandas el10 de mayo de 1808. gracias de antemano