Hi Everyone, I didn't see my first two posts here, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. I did get a reply ( Gracias Jorge !) but have not seen my posts show up here...forgive me, I'm a rookie. First I'd like to thank Joseph for allowing me to join the site. My name is Robert Gonzalez, my area of research is Los Altos de Jalisco, specifically, Tepatitlan and "La Villa" San Jose De Basarte. My father and grandfather were born in La Villa \ SJB. My Great Grandfather, Gregorio Gonzalez is buried beneath the alter of the small church\ capilla there. I also have records of my great,great grandfather and some other family members but have hit a wall. Ultimatley I'd like to take my research all the way back to Spain to find out where my family line started. Names I'd like to research are Gonzalez, Casillas and Alonso. It seems that for at least two generations, the Gonzalez line married into the Casillas line. Any info on San Jose de Basarte would be greatly appreciated, I do have some minor info in regards to the history of La Villa but not enough to satisfy my curiosity. Thank you all, I look forward to sharing info with all of you, Robert Gonzalez ~
Second Hello \ Introduction
Hi Robert! Welcome to our group, I am glad a new member has joined, many of us will have the last names you mention. From what I have helped people, usually you need to get back about 1730 or so that's when you can connect tha massive alteño family tree back to Spain. González is very common, some of the families are González de Laris, gonzález de Hermosillo, González de Ledesma, González Ruvalcaba, González de San Román y Serrano, González del Castillo and González y Rubio. Funny thing about Alteños within 100 years all these González were related thorugh marriage and blood. Maybe you heard the saying, Esos Altos de Jalisco, donde son buenos cristianos para no regar la sangre se casan primos hermanos, I always laugh at that saying! Its funny and true. If your from Tepa, then the Casillas should be la Familia "de Casillas y Cabrera." Alonso might be Alonso de los Hinojos, but I dont know if they went all the way down there, then again the early Spanish traveled everywhere.
Have you posted yout files and a gedcom? From there we can really help try to be as specific as you can, every detail counts! I hope this helps at least as a foundation! -Daniel Camino
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Gracias \ Some background on my family
Hi Daniel ! Thank you for the warm welcome ! I have not posted any files as of yet, I'm still a rookie at all this. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My father and grandmother did tell me that the Gonzalez \ Casillas line married into each other a couple of times !, So I know that saying about Altenos is true ! Just some background, my Grandfather and his brothers moved up to Miami , Arizona to work in the mines. He contracted miners lung \ black lung and when he realized it was going to kill him, he went back to his birthplace, La Villa \ San Jose de Basarte. My father and my uncle Santiago were born there. My grandfather passed when my father was only two years old or so, he never knew him My grandmother, who was originally from Aguascalientes, moved the family back to Arizona, first Jerome, then to Bisbee..where I grew up. According to my grandmother, my grandfather's family had a large estate that the family shared, she sold off her portion to some of the family members that had stayed behind. My grandmother eventually remarried to a man who did not care for my father and his brothers and he forbade my grandmother to ever talk about their family. For many years my dad had no info as to his roots, very little about it was ever discussed. When my abuelas husband died, she could finally talk to her sons about their family history, but they were grown men by that time. She used to tell me stories about the family and my grandfather and she hid away photos that I'm am blessed to have now. My grandfather and his brothers were tall, 6ft plus and all except my abuelo had blond hair and blue eyes. She told me that when my grandfather would speak to his father, they spoke a version of spanish that she has a hard time following..I've always wondered if it was Gallego or Catalan...maybe even Basque. So many other things she would tell me that I would like answers to, not so much for me, but for my father. My great grandfather , Gregorio Gonzalez Casillas is buried in the small church or capilla in SJdB, quite an honor I'm told, I'd like to know why this type of respect was given to my family, who exactly they were ? I'd better give it a rest now ! I still have much more info to share, sorry to ramble on. Thanks again Daniel, I look forward to speaking with you more in the future ! Robert ~
Gracias \ Some background on my family
There are stories that the spanish being spoken near valle de Gpe, pegueros and san miguel was ladino and was spoken because of jewish converso ancestors. they used to sing in the countryside this language that was different from the spanish spoken in mexico. Some of my uncles and aunts used to speak about this........
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From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of El Peregrino
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 9:57 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias \ Some background on my family
Hi Daniel ! Thank you for the warm welcome ! I have not posted any files as of yet, I'm still a rookie at all this. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My father and grandmother did tell me that the Gonzalez \ Casillas line married into each other a couple of times !, So I know that saying about Altenos is true ! Just some background, my Grandfather and his brothers moved up to Miami , Arizona to work in the mines. He contracted miners lung \ black lung and when he realized it was going to kill him, he went back to his birthplace, La Villa \ San Jose de Basarte. My father and my uncle Santiago were born there. My grandfather passed when my father was only two years old or so, he never knew him My grandmother, who was originally from Aguascalientes, moved the family back to Arizona, first Jerome, then to Bisbee..where I grew up. According to my grandmother, my grandfather's family had a large estate that the family shared, she sold off her portion to some of the fami
ly members that had stayed behind. My grandmother eventually remarried to a man who did not care for my father and his brothers and he forbade my grandmother to ever talk about their family. For many years my dad had no info as to his roots, very little about it was ever discussed. When my abuelas husband died, she could finally talk to her sons about their family history, but they were grown men by that time. She used to tell me stories about the family and my grandfather and she hid away photos that I'm am blessed to have now. My grandfather and his brothers were tall, 6ft plus and all except my abuelo had blond hair and blue eyes. She told me that when my grandfather would speak to his father, they spoke a version of spanish that she has a hard time following..I've always wondered if it was Gallego or Catalan...maybe even Basque. So many other things she would tell me that I would like answers to, not so much for me, but for my father. My great grandfather , Gregorio Gonz
alez Casillas is buried in the small church or capilla in SJdB, quite an honor I'm told, I'd like to know why this type of respect was given to my family, who exactly they were ? I'd better give it a rest now ! I still have much more info to share, sorry to ramble on. Thanks again Daniel, I look forward to speaking with you more in the future ! Robert ~
Gracias \ Some background on my family
Robert Gonzalez That's very interesting R.A. Thanks for the info ! It's just another piece of the puzzle I'm trying to put together. I've come across some info on the conversos in Jalisco, but not alot. I know many of the early settlers \ conquistadores came from Extremadura and Andalusia, I've always wondered where the majority of settlers came from who settled in Los Altos. After reading some posts here and other books, the families inter married quite a bit and had ties to the old country...I wonder which province though....
Gracias \ Some
Contrary to what most other genealogists believe, I have in my notes that alonso perestriello signed his surname together and not Peres Toriello.. My speculation is that he is of the perestrello family from portugal and a couple generations farther back from genoa where the family italian surname was Pallestrelli. They were a jewish family with descendency to chris columbus's first wife, {some people speculate that he married his second wife in secrecy to legitimize his son but kept it secret to keep his social standing that marriage to his first wife brought him. others say he never married her} We did not descend from Chris columbus but from his perestoriello inlaws that married into the rodriguez family. They were adventurers and explorers and sailors.
Alonso Perestorello was the ancestor to the perez Farnco de Paredes family in los altos de jalisco. The franco and perez side of my family were the ones who have stories of roaming the countryside singing a slightly different language than spanish.
Rick
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From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of El Peregrino
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 12:36 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias \ Some
Robert Gonzalez That's very interesting R.A. Thanks for the info ! It's just another piece of the puzzle I'm trying to put together. I've come across some info on the conversos in Jalisco, but not alot. I know many of the early settlers \ conquistadores came from Extremadura and Andalusia, I've always wondered where the majority of settlers came from who settled in Los Altos. After reading some posts here and other books, the families inter married quite a bit and had ties to the old country...I wonder which province though....
Gracias \ Some
Very interesting Rick, I'd be interested to find out just how heavily the area( Los Altos) was settled by conversos or crypto jews. There is that old saying in regards to the grandee's of Spain not tracing their roots back too far as many of them had jewish ancestry. It does not matter to me as I'd be proud of my ancestors what ever their origins. I do wonder however, how much the native Iberian blood is Semetic. I know there is only speculaiton as to where they came from, but it seems if it was North Africa or the Eastern Med. that could show as Semetic.
Gracias \ Some
there is a very interesting story of one of our ancestors being taken to court after he died for for not being a true converso (convert). He was said to be a great loving and giving catholic 6 days of the week. everybody knew that he kept the sabbath for his jewish customs. He was rich and no one touched him while he was still alive Once he was dead they put him on trial and confiscated all of his kids inhertiance. They disinterred the body and placed it on trial. It is all on record. I will look through my notes to find more details for you. I don't remember the name for sure so I won't mention it just in case I'm wrong on the first name. All the kids were poor after that.
Another case of being conversos or jews was the estrada family, the one that Inclan claims descent from a king through an illegitimate relationship. That estrada claimed what he did to throw off people on his real ancestry. he had a jewish line that was well documented through his relatives documents. That estrada really fooled people with his genealogy in his own time. almost 500 years later he still has people qouting his fictional genealogy. Have you ever heard of the green book. I was supposed to be destroyed but at least one still exists. It is a book that shows many spanish families to descend from jews. A lot of our ancestors from los altos came from a few families that originally came from the hills of Alava and migrated to Castilla. Alava was originally very jewish, When the gonzalez de mendoza, and other families migrated from alava to castilla they were very tolerant of other religious view because of ttheir own family background. Some forgot about that or conveniently forgot about their family history when the inquisition came around. In am proud to say that I also descend from the siblings of Alonso tostado the smartest man of his time and the only one who was able to stand up to torquemada to his face and argue against Torquemadas stupidities.
Alonso Tostado also did genealogy, how about that!
The first Romo de Vivar to come over to Mexico was an officail of the inquistion. Now that is a fact that I hide in my notes and do not repeat often. He had to submit a family tree to become part of the inquisition, the funny thing is that it is very likely that his mother was jewish because the perez from the town of vivar was jewish. I know he was born in a town just outside Toledo in his time but now inside the city limits of Todays Toledo, Spain but his family was originally from Vivar.
The romo's from Santa Ana, part of San Miguel, my mom's family has many traditions that outside los altos would be considered jewish yet in los altos they are considered family traditions or habits. The faith Santo Toribio Romo had was a very disciplined and introspective faith much in common with jewish customs.
Rick
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From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of El Peregrino
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 3:15 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias \ Some
Very interesting Rick, I'd be interested to find out just how heavily the area( Los Altos) was settled by conversos or crypto jews. There is that old saying in regards to the grandee's of Spain not tracing their roots back too far as many of them had jewish ancestry. It does not matter to me as I'd be proud of my ancestors what ever their origins. I do wonder however, how much the native Iberian blood is Semetic. I know there is only speculaiton as to where they came from, but it seems if it was North Africa or the Eastern Med. that could show as Semetic.