I’ve been looking at this information about Teodoro de Alba for quite a while and it remains a puzzle to me. Perhaps because we had so little information to start with, it is difficult to trust the evidence once it appears.
One of my great grandfathers, Theodore “Dad” Alby was from Mexico. His birth name was Teodoro de Alba. The family story has it that he was born in San Juan de los Lagos, in the state of Jalisco, Mexico and crossed into the USA when he was still a teenager. His mother’s last name was Gonzales and his father’s was Alba. We don’t have their first names. He had two brothers, Francisco and Miguel. He disliked his father who he said was Spanish and abandoned the family. His mother then took the children to live with her parents. We have no family letters, photos or other documents to verify any of this information. He died several years before I was born and his children have long since passed as well.
When Teodoro applied for citizenship in the 1930s, he stated that he was born on Nov. 9, 1856 and crossed the border at Laredo, Texas in July 1876. For the next 15 years we he is said to have been a cowboy on various ranches in Texas. In 1891, he married my g-grandmother in Bonham, Texas, and the remainder of his life is pretty well documented.
With guidance from Joseph, Armando and other on NR, I searched through microfilm of Catholic parish records from Mexico and found two documents of interest. The first records a christening dated 28 Nov. 1858 for Teodora, a daughter born twenty days earlier to Anastacio de Alba and Mariana Gonzales. The second is a marriage record dated June 17, 1876 for Teodoro de Alba, 18 years of age, whose parents are also Anastacio de Alba and Mariana Gonzales. This was long before sex change operations, so it seems most likely to me that the priest made a mistake and these two documents refer to the same person. Also, if you compute Teodora's birth date to 20 days before Nov 28 it would be Nov. 8, just one day off from Nov. 9, the day my g-grandfather listed as his birthday on his immigration papers.
Anastacio de Alba and Mariana Gonzales also appear in other church records indicating they had two other sons, Jose Miguel de Alba and Francisco de Alba. This aligns with our family story of Teodoro having two brothers named Francisco and Miguel.
It is possible that I'm grasping at straws here, and this Teodoro/a is unrelated to my ancestor. However, I have found no other record of his existence in Mexico. And, I have seen enough errors in census and other official records to know that pretty much any mistake is possible. So what do you think? Did the priest make a mistake? Do enough facts line up to constitute a "preponderance of evidence". How likely is this to be my Mexican family?
Please excuse my lousy translations (and feel free to correct). And thanks for looking,
Steve Compton
Christening Record for Teodora de Alva
Ledesema, Jalisco, Mexico
En la Iglesia de Ledesema, en la parroquia de Ojuelos, en veinte ocho de Noviembre, de mil ocho ciento ciencuenta y ocho, yo el Presbitero Don Sebastian Merondo, con licencia parroco, bautise solemnemente a Teodora de veinte dias a las tres de la tarde en Palo-alto, hija legitima de Anatascio de Alva y de Mariana Gonsales. Abuelos paternos Antonio de Alva y Feliciana Jaime. Abuelos maternos Relles Gonsales y Sanjuana Guzman fueron sus Padrinos Dario de Alva y Isabel Jamie a quienes adverti su obligacion y para que conste lo firme,
Sebastian Merondo
Translation:
In the Church of Ledesma, parish of Ojuelos, on the 28th of November, 1858, I the priest Don Sebastian Merondo, with parish license, solemnly baptize Teodora, born 20 days ago at three in the afternoon in Palo Alto, legitimate daughter of Anastasio Alva and of Mariana Gonsales. Paternal grandparents Antonio de Alva and Feliciana Jaime. Maternal grandparents Relles (Reyes) Gonsales and Sanjuana Guzman. The godparents Dario de Alva and Isabel Jamie who were advised of their obligations and witnessed by my signature,
Sebastian Merondo
Marriage record for Teodoro de Alva
San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco, Mexico
En las ciudad de San Juan a siete de Junio de mil ochociento setenta y seis, yo el Presbitero Don Tebronio Ponce, Teniente de Cura de esta parroquia, con licencia del San Cural, habiendose practicado la correspondente informacion matrimonial, precedida que fueron tres amonestaciones en los dias veinticinco, veintiseis de Marzo, y dos de Abril de presente ano, de que no result impedimiento alguno, habiendo confesado y comulgado e instruidos en los doctrinas cristianas, case y vele infaccie ecclecial al Teodoro de Alva, originario y vecino de esta feligresia en el rancho de Frujillos, soltero de diesyocho anos de edad; hijo legitimo de Anastasio de Alva, difunto y de Mariana Gonzales que vive. Con Ysabel Guerrero, originaria de la feligr’ de Jalos en el rancho de Labor de Abalsa y vecina de esta Fruqillos hace cuatro anos, celibe de dies y nueve anos de edad hija natural de Maria Jorge Placencia que vive, fueron sus padrinos Francisco de Alva y Proniacia Peones; y testigos Don Elieco Gallardo e Yldefonzo Gutierres, lo que para constancia firme con el San Cural,
Sr. Jacinto Reynosa
Translation:
In the city of San Juan (de los Lagos) on June 7, 1876, I the priest Don Febronio Ponce, deputy (or interim) priest of this parish, with license of holy church, three admonitions that were preceded on the 25th of March and 2nd of April of this year that resulted in no impediment whatsoever, having confessed and received communion and instructed in Christian doctrines, marry and ensure in the presence of the congregation Teodoro de Alba, native and resident of this parish in the Frujillos ranch, a single man 18 years of age, legitimate son of Anastasio de Alva, deceased and Mariana Gonzales, living, with Isabel Guerrero, native of the parish of Jalos in the Labor of Abalsa ranch and resident of this parish for four years, virgin 19 years of age, natural daughter of Maria Jorge Placencia, living. The marriage godparents are Francisco de Alva and Proniacia Peones; and witnesses Don Elieco Gallardo and Idelfonzo Gutierres. Witnessed by the signature of the holy church,
Sr. Jacinto Reynosa
Alba puzzle
I too have seen similar errors so it certainly sounds plausible that you have found the baptism record for Teodoro de Alva. It may help to expand your search to include records for Teodoro's siblings, cousins and other relatives which may provide additional substantiating facts. As to "how likely" that these are your ancestors, you may want to consider taking a genealogical autosomal DNA test which will better quantify if you are on the right track. If your Teodoro is the son of Anastasio de Alva and Mariana Gonzalez then your test results should show several matches with me. Based on what I've found, Anastasio de Alva's paternal grandparents Jose Rafael de Alva and Maria Gertrudis de Cuellar are my 5th great grand parents. On Anastasio's maternal side, his mother's (Feliciana Jaime) maternal grand parents Manuel Victoriano Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Juana Maria de los Dolores Lozano are my 5th great grand parents, and both sets of Feliciana's paternal great grand parents, Florentino Jaime & Elena de Alva Bocanegra and Joaquin de Miramontes & Maria Josefa de Trillo, are also my direct ancestors.
Buena suerte!
Austin Perez
DNA match?
Hi Austin,
It would be a big breakthrough for our family if we could pin down a connection for Teodoro's line in Mexico. I have my autosomal DNA on ancestry.com. Is there any way we could compare DNA results to check this out?
Steve Compton
DNA match?
Hi Steve,
I have my autosomal results on FamilyTree DNA and also on GEDMatch.com. You can create an account and upload your DNA test results to GEDMatch for free. My GEDMatch kit number is F316769.
Austin Perez
DNA match?
Hi Austin, I uploaded my Ancestry DNA file to GEDMatch.com and compared to yours. I'm not familiar with that site and not sure how to interpret the results. My kit number is A178224 if you want to take a look.
Steve Compton
DNA match?
Hi Steve and Armando,
Steve,
Sorry to say but GEDmatch comparison of our kits did not find any shared DNA segments. The GEDmatch site may still be processing your uploaded data files so I'll try again in a couple of days.
Armando- Thanks for recommending the Genome Mate program!
Hasta pronto
Austin Perez
DNA match?
Austin,
Thanks for trying. That was my reading as well, but I was hoping for another result. Guess I'll have to keep digging for my Teodoro's records. I have already uploaded my ancestryDNA file to FamilyTreeDNA and will look for matches there as well.
Steve Compton
DNA match?
Steve,
Gedmatch is a great tool for finding matches with people that haven't tested with the same company as yourself and have uploaded their results from other companies to Gedmatch. I agree with Austin that you should upload your kit there. I would like to add that not everyone that has tested with FTDNA has uploaded their kit to Gedmatch and you might find other matches at FTDNA if you transfer your Ancestry results there for $39 by using the following link - https://www.familytreedna.com/autosomalTransfer?
Something you and Austin should keep in mind is that sometimes 3rd or 4th cousins don't show up as matches because they haven't inherited the same DNA and sometimes 10th cousins look like 4th cousins. What we inherit is random. In order to determine which ancestor the DNA is inherited from triangulation needs to be used with as many close relatives as possible to determine which side of the family the DNA is coming from and to prove the match isn't IBS. So if you guys have parents, aunts, uncles and so on that are willing to get a Family Finder test also that would help with triangulation.
There is a free utility called at www.genomemate.org that makes triangulation easy and you can zero in on a specific chromosome then determine who else matches on the same segment and then compare trees to see if there are any common ancestors. I highly recommend that you also use that utility.
We need more people like Austin that are knowledgeable with gedcoms and records from Jalisco, Aguascalientes, and Zacatecas involved in genetic genealogy so that we can have more success finding common ancestors for others using DNA. We have already made some strides using Y-DNA and mtDNA.
Armando
DNA match?
Armando,
Thanks for your always useful feedback and tips. I also have one male cousin who in the direct paternal line of Teodoro de Alba. I'll try to convince hime to do a Y-DNA test to see where that leads. I'm working my way into retirement over the next 6 months and plan to devote more time and energy to my two genealogical brick walls. Teodoro is one of them.
Steve Compton
Alba puzzle
Hi,
20 days before the 28th may mean either the 8th or the 9th, depending on how the priest was counting the days (inclusive counting gives the 9th). However, many children born or baptized on or around November 11th could have been named Teodoro or Teodora since that day is the feast of Saint Theodore. If he married your great grandmother by the Catholic Church, the record might state if he was a widower and the name of the late wife, or the names of his parents. Also, his US death certificate may mention his birthday and parents.
Good luck with your search!
Victoriano Navarro