I should be ashamed to say so after the escandalo I made about misspellings. But I have no shame. No tengo verguenza. Nunca tuve.
I’ve been researching my maternal side for many years with little luck.
I now know why. My great grandfather Jose Estevan Rodriguez Montoya who died a few years before I was born told his many grandchildren he was born in the mid 1870s in Spain. He told them he came to Chihuahua during the gold rush of the late 19th century. He claimed Seville was his birthplace, and that he still had a brother living just outside the U.S. naval base at Cadiz.
So, for years I looked for a birth record for him in Spain. And for a record of his trans-Atlantic crossing.
Last year I found his actual birth record. He lied! He was born in Hidalgo del Parral in 1867. When I waved his birth document at the last Rodriguez family reunion every jaw in the room dropped!
They asked me why would he lie about his age. They assumed only women lied about their age.I suggested it was because he never wanted his wife to know how much older he was than her.
Today, the other shoe dropped. Not only wasn’t he himself Spanish, neither was his father, grandfather, nor great grandfather! They were all born in Chihuahua. It was a complete fabrication. A family myth. One we accepted without question.
Grandpa Jose was snow-white, all his children were white con ojos de color, ditto his grandchildren, great grandchildren and so forth. So it was plausible that he was European.
I could not find the records before because Rodrigues had been mis-spelt Rodriges!
So the lesson is don’t accept family lore on face value. Examine, corroborate, investigate, explore…
And things are not always what they appear to be. Grandpa looked rubio, guerro, blanco, gabacho, for all the world to see. But he was really mezclado, a mestizo, a typical Mexican. Un hijo de La Malinche. A son of Dona Marina.
And sometimes misspellings are just that!
Have a great 4th of July weekend.
No Tengo Verguenza. I Have No Shame.
Nathan, I love it when we find the truth even when we know that families stories and legends are going to be dispelled. I made my family angry at my research findings when I ruined the story with the facts.. My mother was blond and blue eyed, her mother and grandmother also typical Spanish coloring, my grandmother said her father was from Spain and her mothers line from Tamazula Jalisco was pure Spanish too .. in doing the research I found a Mulato line that proved we weren't pure Spaniards as they seemed to want to believe... I find great joy in being able to reclaim all that I am and doing the genealogy puts a solid foundation to my family lines. I think part of that need to be Spanish is from the predujice and color conciousness we encountered in California as well as other parts of the states. Now a fews years later at family reunions we find it much easier to open the doors to all the family members. In just my line alone with the birth of my twin gr-grandkids we
just added Jewish and Italian to the lines.. We truly are a rainbow family from way back.. I do appreciate your sharing your story, we have so many old wounds to heal and doors to open with our work in genealogy.
Linda in B.C.
NathanJones wrote:
I should be ashamed to say so after the escandalo I made about misspellings. But I have no shame. No tengo verguenza. Nunca tuve.
Iâve been researching my maternal side for many years with little luck.
I now know why. My great grandfather Jose Estevan Rodriguez Montoya who died a few years before I was born told his many grandchildren he was born in the mid 1870s in Spain. He told them he came to Chihuahua during the gold rush of the late 19th century. He claimed Seville was his birthplace, and that he still had a brother living just outside the U.S. naval base at Cadiz.
So, for years I looked for a birth record for him in Spain. And for a record of his trans-Atlantic crossing.
Last year I found his actual birth record. He lied! He was born in Hidalgo del Parral in 1867. When I waved his birth document at the last Rodriguez family reunion every jaw in the room dropped!
They asked me why would he lie about his age. They assumed only women lied about their age.I suggested it was because he never wanted his wife to know how much older he was than her.
Today, the other shoe dropped. Not only wasnât he himself Spanish, neither was his father, grandfather, nor great grandfather! They were all born in Chihuahua. It was a complete fabrication. A family myth. One we accepted without question.
Grandpa Jose was snow-white, all his children were white con ojos de color, ditto his grandchildren, great grandchildren and so forth. So it was plausible that he was European.
I could not find the records before because Rodrigues had been mis-spelt Rodriges!
So the lesson is donât accept family lore on face value. Examine, corroborate, investigate, exploreâ¦
And things are not always what they appear to be. Grandpa looked rubio, guerro, blanco, gabacho, for all the world to see. But he was really mezclado, a mestizo, a typical Mexican. Un hijo de La Malinche. A son of Dona Marina.
And sometimes misspellings are just that!
Have a great 4th of July weekend.
No Tengo Verguenza. I Have No Shame.
We do have a lot of healing to do.
I like the racial reconciliation they are attempting in South Africa.
In Malaysia they have a sort of Thanksgiving day when the different races (Malay, East Indian, Chinese and indigenous tribes) invite each other over for dinner.
I was in Asuncion a few years ago and it struck me what a cohesive society they have. Almost the entire nation is bilingual in Guarani (known as Tupi in Brazil), and Spanish. Virtually 98% of the people are mestizos. Paraguay is a poor country, but its soul seems to me intact.
My stepfather's family was Californio. His mother snuck fresh handmake tortillas and tamales out to Joaquin Murietta while he was on the run from the new Anglo power structure.
His family name is now Palmer. They felt forced to abandon their true name, Palma, because of the racism they encountered.
I think DNA testing for our purposes has changed the way we see race. Progress may be incremental, but I see a brighter future.
No Tengo Verguenza. I Have No Shame.
An interesting question regarding denial/acceptance of our multi-faceted
origins:
Do you suppose that denial comes in part because of a need to feel equal to
others? Could it be that some areas would propagate such legends because
they not only witnessed severe discrimination in the United States, but also in
their own homeland or region?
My maternal family insisted that they had French blood in them - so far, I
have found no Herrera or Luna lines attached to Tlaltenango that substantiates
this.
My paternal line (from Coahuila/Nuevo Leon) never highlighted their Spanish
side, rather they seemed more proud of their indigenous background.
In fact, it seems that both sides of the family behave as if they weren't
from the same country - could it be regional, such as Zacatecas would be more
provincial in their thinking while Coahuila natives might be more independent
because of their pioneering spirit or relative proximity to the states?
Just a thought....
Esperanza
No Tengo Verguenza. I Have No Shame.
My Coahuila paternal line also highlighted their indigenous ancestry, directly descended from Emperor Moctezuma.
Many white people in Oklahoma claim Native American heritage even if they don't have a drop of Indian blood because it makes them feel part of the land, and culture. Of a grand tradition.
So, fortunately, denial and acceptance transcends color and race.
We Chicanos are so mesclados that we really don't know where one tradition picks up and the other leaves off. Are we eating something Mexican when we have a flour tortilla? Is menudo from Mexico, or Spain? They enjoy menudo in Manila, Mexico City and Madrid.
We've had a legend about being kidnapped by Indians in my family. I'll bet most of our families have a similar tale.
My father insisted it was his grandmother who was kidnapped by Apaches in Texas.
She did speak a few words of Apache. I knew her during the first ten years of my life.
To my shock I was able to document the kidnapping last year. It happened in Coahuila a generation earlier than we believed. But I have the names, dates, all the facts to something I thought would be forever illusive. An oral tradtion, a myth.
http://www.genealogy.com/users/a/l/d/Ernie-Alderete/
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/moctezuma
http://www.familytreedna.com/(hcojjivgekjvu155hef2gy55)/public/alderete
http://forums.delphiforums.com/moctezuma1
No Tengo Verguenza. I Have No Shame.
Ernie, What was her name? I couldn't determine which one she was.
Marge:)
> We've had a legend about being kidnapped by Indians in my family. I'll
> bet most of our families have a similar tale.
> My father insisted it was his grandmother who was kidnapped by Apaches
> in Texas.
> She did speak a few words of Apache. I knew her during the first ten
> years of my life.
>
> To my shock I was able to document the kidnapping last year. It
> happened in Coahuila a generation earlier than we believed. But I have
> the names, dates, all the facts to something I thought would be
> forever illusive. An oral tradtion, a myth.
>
No Tengo Verguenza. I Have No Shame.
I have a wealth of information on my paternal Romo family from Rancho Nuevo. Coahuila. But the story is very involved, and I'm sure confusing.
Another Romo rsearcher in Texas compiled this valuable data and shared it with me.
It includes beautiful narratives of how the Romos took on the challenge of the worldwide flu pandemic of 1918, and never came down with the illness despite repeated exposure.
He describes curanderas in our family, their methods, skills and techniques.
How the women baked bread in clay ovens.
I remember my great grandmother, Antonia Gonzales Ramirez, who was born in Brackettville, Texas in 1879 being a curandera. I recall her finding water with a divining rod and using herbal cures she must have learned from Indians. I remember one, or two Indian words.
My mother taught me "korima." That means money, I think, in Taruhmara.
My great great grandmother, Maria Silvestra Romo, was born around 1856 in Rnacho Nuevo, now La Madrid, Coahuila.
Her parents were Miguel Romo and Maria Juana Ybarra.
Miguel's parents are my link with Nuestros Ranchos. They were the ones who left Aguascalientes to settle in Rancho Nuevo/Nadadores/Parras, Coahuila at the dawn of the 19th century.
Maria Silvestra Romo had two full-blooded sisters. She was the middle sister. Her older sister, I believe, was Maria del Carmen, or Carmel, Romo. She is the Carmen referenced in the excerpt below:
JUANITA5 VERDUSCO born Abt. 1889, and died
Unknown. She married GONZALO ROMO December 06, 1905 in Rancho Nuevo, Coah., Mexico, son of MIGUEL ROMO and NATIVIDAD RIOJAS ( the last of Miguel's several spouses). He was born Abt. 1884 in Rancho Nuevo, Coah.,
Notes for JUANITA VERDUSCO:
Mom thinks Juanita was abandoned by her mother. The story goes that Juanita was given to Carmen Romo by Indians when Juanita was six years old. Carmen was Grandma Tonia's half-sister.
---
I'm making incredible advances on my maternal family tree and hope to upload it to Nuestros Ranchos to join my paternal tree in the next month, or two.
No Tengo Verguenza. I Have No Shame.
Esperanza,
Yes, an interesting question. My father (from Jerez, Zac) was very provincial in his thinking. He did not like blacks or Asians (yet I have found that several in his lineage were described as "mulato"), and he told me that his great-grandfather had blue eyes and was French. My searches have not turned up anyone described as French, but I think I know why so many people there think that if someone has blue eyes, they must be "French". When I went with my parents to Jerez in 1962, we stopped to get gas in a small town and we had lunch there too. It seemed to me that most of the people in that town (don't know which town it was) had blue eyes even if they were dark-skinned. I had the temerity (I am a sin verguenza too) to comment to a young man there (much to my father's consternation) that I was surprised to see so many people with blue eyes in that town, and he said it was because "los franceses estuvieron por aqui". I think he was referring to the French invasion in th
e 1860's
. If my father had an ancestor with blue eyes, it was probably because of his Spanish or Basque heritage and little mixing with the indigenous people.
My husband's mother and her sisters were proud of their European looks and told me that their ancestors were Spanish and had never mixed with the indigenous. I asked one of his aunts in Mexico City where in Spain they were from and she told me "Barcelona". Well, I have researched those ancestors clear back to the Jalisco of the early 1700s and have found no mention of anyone from Spain, much less Barcelona. My husband's more recent ancestors all seemed to have been merchants, city people, and his aunt would refer to some people in Mexico as "los inditos" or "los rancheros". She was a profesora in Mexico City and was a former nun. Go figure.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --
Racial Perceptions
I've heard this story about the French Intervention many times. But there were very few actual French soldiers involved. Mainly officers commanding native troops.
I have several tenants from the state of Guerrero. From the outskirts of Acapulco. They call their home area "Tierra Caliente." And they see things very differently than I do.
The skin disorder vertiiglio runs in my family. My tenants insist the discoloration is due to the mezcla. That the Indian and Spanish blood didn't mix properly, resulting in uneven skin tones.
I am told that the small Pacific coast state of Nayarit has a high percentage of ojos de color.
Racial Perceptions
Hola Nathan:
The fact is that French infantry and cavalry numbered more than 3,000 at the
Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862. They were reinforced by more than 5,000
Spanish soldiers. No one really knows how much intermixing there was
between these forces and the Mexican Criollos and Mestizos during the
occupation and reign of Maximilian. To complicate matters still further,
Maximilian's personal guard was made up of a brigade of Austrian soldiers
selected for their size. My information is from a military history volume
titled "El Ejercito Mexicano".
Jose Aguayo
Racial Perceptions
Jose,
You know, I have heard about the Mexican government in Mexico City at one time wanting to emulate the monarchies of Europe. I think I heard about a president named Diaz I think (who my father described as "a very bad man"), who was a mestizo, I think, not very dark, but not white enough, so he used white powder to make himself look white. When he invited some crowned heads of Europe to visit, he had these tall handsome white dragoons keep all the little brown indigenous people off the streets where the royal entourages would be passing in their carriages. I think he wanted to make the city look European, even to the color of the citizens. Was he emulating Maximilian and also recruited guards for their color and size for show? Has anyone else heard that story?
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
No Tengo Verguenza. I Have No Shame.
This is a wonderful story. Sad that it took years of you researching, but what an imagination Jose Estevan Rodriguez had to fabricate such a story. Leading me to believe he was an educated man, who knew about Seville, Cadiz and Spain in general. My husband and I had the pleasure of visiting Spain in 1989, staying in Malaga, on the Costa da Sol. Day trips took us to Cadiz, on the sea coast, and up into the mountains to Ronda. At La Linea we had an exciting experience when my husband was asked by border guards where he was from, thinking that they were asking his heritage, he said Mexican, Without skipping a heart beat they were ready to pull him off the bus, until I yelled he's an American citizen. The entire bus filled with laughter. Fond memories, brought back by you sharing your Great-Grandfather's story, not a lie, just his dream.
Pat Silva Corbera
I also have Rodrigues ancestors but from Portugal...
NathanJones wrote:
I should be ashamed to say so after the escandalo I made about misspellings. But I have no shame. No tengo verguenza. Nunca tuve.
Iâve been researching my maternal side for many years with little luck.
I now know why. My great grandfather Jose Estevan Rodriguez Montoya who died a few years before I was born told his many grandchildren he was born in the mid 1870s in Spain. He told them he came to Chihuahua during the gold rush of the late 19th century. He claimed Seville was his birthplace, and that he still had a brother living just outside the U.S. naval base at Cadiz.
So, for years I looked for a birth record for him in Spain. And for a record of his trans-Atlantic crossing.
Last year I found his actual birth record. He lied! He was born in Hidalgo del Parral in 1867. When I waved his birth document at the last Rodriguez family reunion every jaw in the room dropped!
They asked me why would he lie about his age. They assumed only women lied about their age.I suggested it was because he never wanted his wife to know how much older he was than her.
Today, the other shoe dropped. Not only wasnât he himself Spanish, neither was his father, grandfather, nor great grandfather! They were all born in Chihuahua. It was a complete fabrication. A family myth. One we accepted without question.
Grandpa Jose was snow-white, all his children were white con ojos de color, ditto his grandchildren, great grandchildren and so forth. So it was plausible that he was European.
I could not find the records before because Rodrigues had been mis-spelt Rodriges!
So the lesson is donât accept family lore on face value. Examine, corroborate, investigate, exploreâ¦
And things are not always what they appear to be. Grandpa looked rubio, guerro, blanco, gabacho, for all the world to see. But he was really mezclado, a mestizo, a typical Mexican. Un hijo de La Malinche. A son of Dona Marina.
And sometimes misspellings are just that!
Have a great 4th of July weekend.