Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
two words immediately after it says 68 años
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
Danny C. Alonso
Jose Maria Saavedra
It says "herrero" (blacksmith), indígena (indian)". Indígena literally means local or native, but in this particular case means specifically "indian", a term that was common in colonial times but less favoured in independent Mexico. That after "indigena" the text clarifies "del mismo origen y vecindad" (same birthplace and residence than the person above), makes clear that with "indigena" he was trying to say "indian" and not only just "native".
Jose Maria Saavedra
Carlos,
Thank you. I have a question for you, Im researching my first cousins family because she doesn't really know how to and she has lots Salgados and im wondering where your Salgados are from, hers are from San Pablo Meoqui.
Danny C. Alonso
Translating words in context
Dear Danny,
Never translate words in isolation. Look up the words and get a word definition, but always remember that how the word is used and when it is used is important. Blacksmith is misspelled but it's a death record so you will often find a profession after a deceased persons name. If it had been a marriage record then you would expect espanol or tresalvo or Indio instead of a profession. I have seem some marriage records with a profession after a name but this is not common.
As to the native word, it does not mean Indian here. You have to look at the word "indigena" here with the other words in the rest of the sentence. It is in a death record, not a marriage record, and it is right after the profession is given. In this case the record states that he and his wife are originally from there and that they were known to be residents there.
Translating words in context
Thank you Mr. Ricci. I appreciate it. I
Jose Maria Saavedra
and thank you everyone who helped me. im trying to accomplish a lot of geneology during summer and I really appreciate all of your help
Danny C. Alonso
Your welcome
Dear Danny,
Your welcome. Your thanks are greatly appreciated. I am impressed with your devotion to genealogy at such a young age. I was interested in it at your age but mostly listened as my tio (great uncle) Doctor Rito Romo Franco would explain to me his latest findings. He would also tell me how I was related to the many people that we met while walking around town.
There was one lady, a great great aunt, that I thought was really old because she was in her seventies. I would later visit her when she was in her eighties and nineties. She lived to be over one hundred. She passed away decades ago so some of her stories were very old. She was a partera "birth nurse" for many people in the town so she always had stories about how this person was related to that person.
One of my favorite stories is the one a great great aunt of mine would tell me of when she was a little child hiding in a tree and throwing fruit at Santo Toribio Romo as he walked down the street. She made him dance in the street in order to avoid the fruit. When Santo Toribio finally figured out where the fruit was coming from, and who was throwing it, he loudly told her she was going to "get it" as soon as he told her father. She was his niece.
A cousin of my grandfathers just passed away, he was 102. He had many stories about the family that just fascinated me. Many of those people have now passed away but I keep them in my heart and in my records.
If you have a chance, go to mexico and listen to your elderly relatives tell you stories about your family.
Feel free to ask me for help in your research,
Rick A. Ricci
Jose Maria Saavedra
Thank you Mr.Ricci. I would like to go to Mexico an meet my relatives one day. I been wanting to go for a while but my mom doesnt think its safe right now. but I will definetly go one day. Thank you for your help.
Danny C. Alonso
Jose Maria Saavedra
I believe they say herrero ( iron smith, his profession ) and indigena ( wrote:
indigent is the word for word translation but I think they are trying to
say that he was native )
On Jun 15, 2016 4:21 PM, "Danny Alonso"
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
>
> Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
> Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
> two words immediately after it says 68 años
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso
Jose Maria Saavedra
Oops, my bad: herrero, and indigena with an "a" at the end. herrero = wrote:
blacksmith, indigena = indigenous ( native ). Sorry I had not read all off
your comments before my first response. I noticed I made a mistake.
On Jun 15, 2016 9:18 PM, "Eduardo Seoane"
> I believe they say herrero ( iron smith, his profession ) and indigena ( wrote:
> indigent is the word for word translation but I think they are trying to
> say that he was native )
> On Jun 15, 2016 4:21 PM, "Danny Alonso"
>
>> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>>
>>
>> Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
>> Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
>> two words immediately after it says 68 años
>>
>>
>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
>>
>>
>> Danny C. Alonso
Jose Maria Saavedra
Hello Everyone,
I wanted to thank everyone that helped me with reading my ancestor Jose
MAria Saavedra's record, Mr. Ricci, Angelina, Ashlynn, Alicia, Donna,
Esther, Eduardo, Maria, Stella, and everyone that I might have missed. I
really appreciate all your help and assistance. thank you very much.
Danny C. Alonso
Jose Maria Saavedra
Your welcome Danny, sorry i couldn't get the right translation for you. I
was
learning too! So glad you got the correct answer now!
Jose Maria Saavedra
That's why the forum is so good because there's so many people
contributing. and I really appreciate everyone's help because I'm trying to
get a bunch of geneology done in the next few months before school comes
back.
Danny C. Alonso
On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Donna Gonzalez
wrote:
> Your welcome Danny, sorry i couldn't get the right translation for you. I
> was
> learning too! So glad you got the correct answer now!
Jose Maria Saavedra
Danny,
I am doing a family tree for my adopted daughter. Her g-g grandfather was an Estevan Saavedra. He was from Degollado and Arandas in Jalisco. Saavedra is an unusual name (for me). I wonder if Estevan was related to your Jose Saavedra. Do you know the origin of that surname?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:14:11 -0700
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Maria Saavedra
>
> That's why the forum is so good because there's so many people
> contributing. and I really appreciate everyone's help because I'm trying to
> get a bunch of geneology done in the next few months before school comes
> back.
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Donna Gonzalez
> wrote:
>
> > Your welcome Danny, sorry i couldn't get the right translation for you. I
> > was
> > learning too! So glad you got the correct answer now!
Jose Maria Saavedra
Emilie,
i missed this email. I heard the name a lot. I think Saavedra is pretty
common. I looked it up and it says its a goth name meaning Old House. I
asked my mom and she says goths are people that wear black makeup in
school, so i think these are different goths. If you tell me who your
Saavedra's ancestors are I can see if they link with mine.
Danny C. Alonso
On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
> Danny,
>
> I am doing a family tree for my adopted daughter. Her g-g grandfather was
> an Estevan Saavedra. He was from Degollado and Arandas in Jalisco.
> Saavedra is an unusual name (for me). I wonder if Estevan was related to
> your Jose Saavedra. Do you know the origin of that surname?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:14:11 -0700
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jose Maria Saavedra
> >
> > That's why the forum is so good because there's so many people
> > contributing. and I really appreciate everyone's help because I'm trying
> to
> > get a bunch of geneology done in the next few months before school comes
> > back.
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Donna Gonzalez <
> donnagonzalez002@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Your welcome Danny, sorry i couldn't get the right translation for
> you. I
> > > was
> > > learning too! So glad you got the correct answer now!
Jose Maria Saavedra
Hi Danny,
These would be the Visigoths or western Goths -a Germanic tribe that invaded Rome in the 4th century and ruled Spain in the early Dark Ages.
Chris
Jose Maria Saavedra
herrero = blacksmith,
indigeno = indigenous
Thus an indigenous blacksmith. The surname Herrera comes from the word
Herrero., son of an herrero, son of a blacksmith.
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
>
> Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
> Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
> two words immediately after it says 68 años
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso
Blacksmith and from there
Even though the spelling is a little off it does mean blacksmith. The second word should be taken in context with the words that are written after that. It is saying that he , like his wife, are both originally , and residents, from that same area.
Jose Maria Saavedra
It sounds like (Hebrew)
*Hevreo indigena*
Maybe someone else knows different.
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
>
> Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for Jose
> Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
> two words immediately after it says 68 años
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso
Jose Maria Saavedra
Hi Danny,
I don't know if I can help much but I'll try. The word for "hebrew" in
Spanish is "hebreo" and "v" and "b" are sometimes used interchangeably for
one another in a word. Though the writer wrote "hebrero". Still I think
Esther may be onto something.
From what limited amount I can read the woman has the same origin and comes
from the same vicinity as the legitimate son Jose. I know that many Jews
came over from Spain and the Iberian Peninsula and intermarried in Mexico.
My family has some Jewish blood from the Acevedo and Mercado sides. The
writer may be describing this woman and her son Jose (if i'm reading that
correctly) as being Jewish/Hebrew in origin. Maybe another person can
better translate this article.
Hope this helps a bit.
Good luck!
-Donna
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Esther Jordan wrote:
> It sounds like (Hebrew)
>
> *Hevreo indigena*
> Maybe someone else knows different.
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Danny Alonso
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
> >
> >
> > Could someone tell me what these two words mean on this defuncion for
> Jose
> > Maria Saavedra. It's on the bottom of the page on the right and it's the
> > two words immediately after it says 68 años
> >
> >
> > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9P58-4D3
> >
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Jose Maria Saavedra
Hello Danny,
I read "herrero, indigeno". Which means he was a blacksmith of native
origin.
-Angelina-
Jose Maria Saavedra
Thank you Everyone. but now i'm a little confused. is he Hebrew or a
blacksmith or is he native American?
Danny C. Alonso
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:50 PM, wrote:
> Hello Danny,
>
> I read "herrero, indigeno". Which means he was a blacksmith of native
> origin.
>
> -Angelina-
>
>
Jose Maria Saavedra
Hi Danny,
He's a Blacksmith, not a Jew. The word is herrero, not hevrero, which isn't
the word for Hebrew either way. Hebrew would be Hebreo, but, if he was a
Jew, they would've wrote Judío, not Hebreo. The second word, indígena, I
believe is referring to him being native to the same region of San Luis
Potosí, not of being indigenous in origin.
Have a great day,
Ashlynn
On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:
> Thank you Everyone. but now i'm a little confused. is he Hebrew or a wrote:
> blacksmith or is he native American?
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:50 PM,
>
> > Hello Danny,
> >
> > I read "herrero, indigeno". Which means he was a blacksmith of native
> > origin.
> >
> > -Angelina-
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Danny C. Alonso
Jose Maria Saavedra
If it's herrero then it means iron worker or Blacksmith. The problem is that it looks more like hevrero.
Then the next word means indicates, so ti is saying they are getting the information from his wife who is from the same area.
Jose Maria Saavedra
Thank you Mr. Ricci. I really appreciate it.
Danny C. Alonso