I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ;
I grew up in the U.S. in a small mining town located in southeastern Arizona . When my father's family left the villa in Los Altos , they settled in Miami and Jerome Arizona. He came to the states when he was just 2 years old. All of the men in my fathers family were miners, as was my father when he returned to AZ after a stint in the military. My father's first language at home was Spanish, he said he really didn't start speaking English until after he began elementary school. He knew first hand the challenges of not being able to speak english well so he always stressed to my sister and I how important it was to know BOTH languages, it was he said , to our benefit to know more than one language and he was right.
The trouble was, growing up in the Southwest the early 70's, we were not allowed to speak Spanish at school. If you did, you got a trip to the principle's office, or sent home...sad but all too true. We still spoke it at home, but as we continued in school and made non Spanish speaking friends, we used it less and less. That was my first brush with the idea that there was an US and a THEM. Many of you can relate to this I'm sure. Growing up in the States I was just like any other American kid, I listened to Rock and Roll, not corridas , had long hair and loved hot rods. I played football not soccer . Although I loved to hear stories about my family history , I knew nothing of Los Altos...it was another world to me. Many of my friends were in the same boat, some of our familes had been in the US for three or more generations. My mother's people were some of the first settlers in the Tucson area, before Arizona was even a state, who had the right to tell me I didn't belong ? We kidded each other in Spanglish...mixing both languages, a hybrid, just like the culture we were growing up in. Back then there was no lable like Hispanic, or even worse, Latino...if you were a Mexican American , you were a Chicano or, if you came from Spanish stock like we did, you were a Hispano, which is a Southwestern term to denote ties to Spain, not a Spanish version of Hispanic.
My home town is 8 or so miles from the Mexican frontera of Sonora. As my friends and I entered high school, we came into contact with other kids who lived right on the border of Sonora and AZ in a small town called Naco. These kids roots were in Sonora proper, their familes were in the US for maybe a genration at the most, they still had strong ties to Mexico and towns like Agua Prieta , Hermosillo and Nogales. Once again I got a taste of US and THEM. We were told by some, not all, that we were not Mexicans, we were pochos, we were lost people who's parents sold out and wanted to be gringos. It had nothing to do with a difference of appearence,it had everything to do with the side of the border you happened to be born on...you were from Mexico or el otro lado, the motherland or the other side, and there was no way to change it, period.
So not only did we have challenges in the Anglo world , constant reminders that we were different . Things like not being able to go swimming at the local Elk's Club pool, or not being able to date certain non Mexican girls, even though many of us, myself included ,were constantly confused with being anything but Mexican because of our light skin . We also had to deal with what I call reverse racism, from other Mexicans who felt we didn't have the right to call ourselves Mexicans , not all of them of course, I must stess this, but to a good amount of Mexicanos we were just pochos.
That is what put me on the path to learning about my family's roots, I was no longer content with what I learned from text books, none of it fit...and forget about movies or pop culture ! To this day everyone with a Spanish surname in a movie is either the bad guy or the girl that gets bedded by the Anglo hero, it's getting better, but not by much. I came to understand totally why people do family research, why I do research... to find MY ancestors. The group that I belong to and cannot deny me entry by right of blood, WHO EVER and WHAT EVER they were...is what I AM.
Walking in Two Worlds
This.
The discussion reminded me of one of my very favorite scenes in the movie "Selena," where Abraham Quintanilla, the father, is telling Selena and her brother, AB, about being Mexican-American as opposed to Mexican or American:
"We have to know John Wayne AND Pedro Infante. We have to know about Frank Sinatra AND Agustin Lara... We've got to prove to the Mexicans how Mexican we are, and we've got to prove to the Americans how American we are...both at the same time. It's exhausting!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw5bA8cVF-E
Recently, I saw another clip by Mexican-American comedian, Eddie G., about being "ni de aqui, ni de alla" while actually being from both backgrounds, living both cultures. I loved how he put it: "We're a force to be reckoned with. We don't fit in because we were BORN TO STAND OUT."
Sandra Velez
Walking in Two Worlds
Gandalf3, Ha! You sound just like me. I grew up in the 50s, born in the 30s, mother of native NM stock, Piro tribe, and her people used that term "los del otro lado", Dad from Jerez. I remember no Spanish allowed in schools, and in California when my husband was a teenager, some "chicano" guys beat up a coach who seemed racist towards them, etc. Some cops were bad to them also, pulling them over for no reason. A cousin of mine in NM was told he couldn't use the swimming pool in the motel they were staying in, etc. and the stories go on and on. In order to fit in and progress, you have to immerse yourself in the dominant culture and language, and work to bring about changes, and the Mexicans south of the border don't understand that about us. We have progressed to the point that we can elect an African-American to our highest office, and they have not.
When I visited Mexico City with my husband to see his aunt, she would correct me about how to pronounce "Sears", that it was Seh-ahrs, not Seers, that they would label me as a pocha if they heard me say Seers. So what? They chose to live in Mexico and thought it was so good because they were born and bred there, but I preferred the US because I was born and grew up there. Where you were born and where you grow up is your patria and you don't have to call the land of your ancestors your patria. The US took over the Pueblos of New Mexico in 1852, so we have been Americans for over 150 years now, and I don't ever intend moving to Mexico. I've had to learn more Spanish to help me read Mexican records, but had my ancestors been from France, I would be struggling with French.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 5:19 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ;
I grew up in the U.S. in a small mining town located in southeastern Arizona . When my father's family left the villa in Los Altos , they settled in Miami and Jerome Arizona. He came to the states when he was just 2 years old. All of the men in my fathers family were miners, as was my father when he returned to AZ after a stint in the military. My father's first language at home was Spanish, he said he really didn't start speaking English until after he began elementary school. He knew first hand the challenges of not being able to speak english well so he always stressed to my sister and I how important it was to know BOTH languages, it was he said , to our benefit to know more than one language and he was right.
The trouble was, growing up in the Southwest the early 70's, we were not allowed to speak Spanish at school. If you did, you got a trip to the principle's office, or sent home...sad but all too true. We still spoke it at home, but as we continued in school and made non Spanish speaking friends, we used it less and less. That was my first brush with the idea that there was an US and a THEM. Many of you can relate to this I'm sure. Growing up in the States I was just like any other American kid, I listened to Rock and Roll, not corridas , had long hair and loved hot rods. I played football not soccer . Although I loved to hear stories about my family history , I knew nothing of Los Altos...it was another world to me. Many of my friends were in the same boat, some of our familes had been in the US for three or more generations. My mother's people were some of the first settlers in the Tucson area, before Arizona was even a state, who had the right to tell me I didn't belong ?
We
kidded each other in Spanglish...mixing both languages, a hybrid, just like the culture we were growing up in. Back then there was no lable like Hispanic, or even worse, Latino...if you were a Mexican American , you were a Chicano or, if you came from Spanish stock like we did, you were a Hispano, which is a Southwestern term to denote ties to Spain, not a Spanish version of Hispanic.
My home town is 8 or so miles from the Mexican frontera of Sonora. As my friends and I entered high school, we came into contact with other kids who lived right on the border of Sonora and AZ in a small town called Naco. These kids roots were in Sonora proper, their familes were in the US for maybe a genration at the most, they still had strong ties to Mexico and towns like Agua Prieta , Hermosillo and Nogales. Once again I got a taste of US and THEM. We were told by some, not all, that we were not Mexicans, we were pochos, we were lost people who's parents sold out and wanted to be gringos. It had nothing to do with a difference of appearence,it had everything to do with the side of the border you happened to be born on...you were from Mexico or el otro lado, the motherland or the other side, and there was no way to change it, period.
So not only did we have challenges in the Anglo world , constant reminders that we were different . Things like not being able to go swimming at the local Elk's Club pool, or not being able to date certain non Mexican girls, even though many of us, myself included ,were constantly confused with being anything but Mexican because of our light skin . We also had to deal with what I call reverse racism, from other Mexicans who felt we didn't have the right to call ourselves Mexicans , not all of them of course, I must stess this, but to a good amount of Mexicanos we were just pochos.
That is what put me on the path to learning about my family's roots, I was no longer content with what I learned from text books, none of it fit...and forget about movies or pop culture ! To this day everyone with a Spanish surname in a movie is either the bad guy or the girl that gets bedded by the Anglo hero, it's getting better, but not by much. I came to understand totally why people do family research, why I do research... to find MY ancestors. The group that I belong to and cannot deny me entry by right of blood, WHO EVER and WHAT EVER they were...is what I AM.
Who we are
Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.
Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I call it the land that time forgot. His family is the Cordovas, one of the founding families of Taos. The traditions and the Spanish that they speak is from two hundred years ago. The people there are very proud of their heritage, which they attribute to Spanish and Native Americans--not Mexicans.
From my mother's side of the family, discrimination against dark skin (brown not black) and against Mexican traditions was strong. My mother and her family were from Tamazula, Jalisco and she moved to Sonora by the border as a pre-teen. My own family looked down on their own traditions. I grew up having turkey for Christmas instead of tamales, and my mother was quick to adapt any new American tradition like Thanksgiving. Being the rebel that I have always been, I live in this Arizona dessert and my skin is now darker as I tan easily (our weather is 110 degrees now!). I like a variety of music including corridos and corriditas to my mother's dismay. I wear rebosos and have a good collection of them.
I feel very fortunate and have assimilated the American culture well. The US is my country, and I am a proud American. Mexico is a part of me and Mexican traditions are part of my life. I have two different cultures that I balance and have found a comfortable mixture of both of them. I am looking for my roots because it is who I am.
Excellente comentario! Se me salieron las lagrimas al leerlo. Naci en Sonora en una frontera y despues me mude unos cuantos metros al norte a una frontera de Arizona. Esta ciudad es como un paraiso para los nuevos emigrantes como yo. Mas del 95% de la poblacion habla espanol, incluyendo el correo y el ayuntamiento. Sin embargo he enfrentado descriminacion en otros lugares de Arizona y de California por ser una mujer en administracion de negocios y por hablar ingles con acento.
Por parte del lado de mi mama la discriminacion era fuerte por el tono de la piel (moreno, no negro) y por las costumbres de Mexico. Mi mama y su familia son de Tamazula, Jalisco y mi mama se mudo a la frontera de Sonora antes de ser una adolecente. Mi propia familia desdenaba sus propias tradiciones. Yo creci teniendo pavo para navidad en lugar de tamales, y mi mama adoptaba rapidamente las costumbres americanas como el dia de accion de gracias. Debido a que siempre he sido rebelde y viviendo en Arizona mi piel se ha hecho mas obscura (tenemos ahorita temperaturas de mas de 110 grados F). Me gustan algunos corridos y las corriditas para admiracion de mi mama. Tambien me gustan y uso rebozos y tengo una colleccion de ellos.
Me siento muy afortunada y he asimilado la cultura americana muy bien. Estados Unidos es mi patria y estoy orgullosa de ser estadounidense. Mexico forma parte de mi misma y las tradiciones mexicanas son parte de mi vida. Tengo dos culturas y he encontrado un buen balance para combinarlas. Estoy buscando mis raices porque esas raices me formaron y son lo que yo soy.
Rosie Cordova
Rosie
Thanks Rosie and great post back at you ! Funny you mention turkey, that was the test if you were raised speaking Old Castillian as we were , or Mexican Spanish with it's Nahatul loan words. If you said pavo for turkey you spoke Castillian, if you said guahalote (sp.) you were a Mexicano, or gocho for pig as opposed to coche, which to us was a car ! but caro was a car (auto) for Chicanos...man, are the memories coming back now. Robert ~
Rosie
Hi Robert, I a remember my friends and I joking about this, since they always asked why do you speak like that? I always tell thats how I was taught, for me
pavo=turkey
car=coche
cart=carro
pig=cerdo
peach=melecotón not Durazno
Even in Mexico we all speak differently, I think really it just depends, like English we all learn it differently, I sometimes have a small North CArolina ring when I speak because my kindergarten teacher was from North Carolina. like the words Sentence, I pronounce the "t" differently. Thanks teacher! -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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Who we are
We all know that racial discrimination is a form of ignornance/fear and a means of making oneself feel superior at someone else's expense. Unfortunately, it's not surprising to find it alive and well in every corner of the world--only the target changes.
I am eternally grateful that my parents immigrated and that I was born and raised in San Antonio, yet I have always felt that culturally, I stradle two worlds. I know that they suffered indignities, endured, and overcame misfortunes in order to give us a better life. I therefore owed it to them and myself to take advantage of what this country has to offer, and I have. In the era that I grew up, to no small degree did having English as my first language allow me to accomplish this. In San Antonio there are many, many others in my position that are community leaders, professionals, and have advanced degrees from prestigious universities. We have had Mexican mayors in the past and have just recently elected an other--Julian Castro. His twin brother, Joaquin Castro is a state representative and both are Harvard grads. I firmly believe that in San Antonio, we are working from within the system to change the wrongs that our fathers endured in the past.
--- rcordovamba@aol.com wrote:
From: rcordovamba@aol.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.
Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I call it the land that time forgot. His family is the Cordovas, one of the founding families of Taos. The traditions and the Spanish that they speak is from two hundred years ago. The people there are very proud of their heritage, which they attribute to Spanish and Native Americans--not Mexicans.
>From my mother's side of the family, discrimination against dark skin (brown not black) and against Mexican traditions was strong. My mother and her family were from Tamazula, Jalisco and she moved to Sonora by the border as a pre-teen. My own family looked down on their own traditions. I grew up having turkey for Christmas instead of tamales, and my mother was quick to adapt any new American tradition like Thanksgiving. Being the rebel that I have always been, I live in this Arizona dessert and my skin is now darker as I tan easily (our weather is 110 degrees now!). I like a variety of music including corridos and corriditas to my mother's dismay. I wear rebosos and have a good collection of them.
I feel very fortunate and have assimilated the American culture well. The US is my country, and I am a proud American. Mexico is a part of me and Mexican traditions are part of my life. I have two different cultures that I balance and have found a comfortable mixture of both of them. I am looking for my roots because it is who I am.
Excellente comentario! Se me salieron las lagrimas al leerlo. Naci en Sonora en una frontera y despues me mude unos cuantos metros al norte a una frontera de Arizona. Esta ciudad es como un paraiso para los nuevos emigrantes como yo. Mas del 95% de la poblacion habla espanol, incluyendo el correo y el ayuntamiento. Sin embargo he enfrentado descriminacion en otros lugares de Arizona y de California por ser una mujer en administracion de negocios y por hablar ingles con acento.
Por parte del lado de mi mama la discriminacion era fuerte por el tono de la piel (moreno, no negro) y por las costumbres de Mexico. Mi mama y su familia son de Tamazula, Jalisco y mi mama se mudo a la frontera de Sonora antes de ser una adolecente. Mi propia familia desdenaba sus propias tradiciones. Yo creci teniendo pavo para navidad en lugar de tamales, y mi mama adoptaba rapidamente las costumbres americanas como el dia de accion de gracias. Debido a que siempre he sido rebelde y viviendo en Arizona mi piel se ha hecho mas obscura (tenemos ahorita temperaturas de mas de 110 grados F). Me gustan algunos corridos y las corriditas para admiracion de mi mama. Tambien me gustan y uso rebozos y tengo una colleccion de ellos.
Me siento muy afortunada y he asimilado la cultura americana muy bien. Estados Unidos es mi patria y estoy orgullosa de ser estadounidense. Mexico forma parte de mi misma y las tradiciones mexicanas son parte de mi vida. Tengo dos culturas y he encontrado un buen balance para combinarlas. Estoy buscando mis raices porque esas raices me formaron y son lo que yo soy.
Rosie Cordova
Who we are
A esto es a lo que me referia mi comentario de escribir en español, no era para contar historias muy bonitas por cierto, solo de participar en los dos idiomas y mas señalandoles que aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS en español.
Saludos cordiales y felicidades al que comparte su historia y utiliza el español e ingles en su narracion
Antonio Santillan
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rcordovamba@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:40:57 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
>
> Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.
>
> Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I call it the land that time forgot. His family is the Cordovas, one of the founding families of Taos. The traditions and the Spanish that they speak is from two hundred years ago. The people there are very proud of their heritage, which they attribute to Spanish and Native Americans--not Mexicans.
>
> >From my mother's side of the family, discrimination against dark skin (brown not black) and against Mexican traditions was strong. My mother and her family were from Tamazula, Jalisco and she moved to Sonora by the border as a pre-teen. My own family looked down on their own traditions. I grew up having turkey for Christmas instead of tamales, and my mother was quick to adapt any new American tradition like Thanksgiving. Being the rebel that I have always been, I live in this Arizona dessert and my skin is now darker as I tan easily (our weather is 110 degrees now!). I like a variety of music including corridos and corriditas to my mother's dismay. I wear rebosos and have a good collection of them.
>
> I feel very fortunate and have assimilated the American culture well. The US is my country, and I am a proud American. Mexico is a part of me and Mexican traditions are part of my life. I have two different cultures that I balance and have found a comfortable mixture of both of them. I am looking for my roots because it is who I am.
>
>
>
> Excellente comentario! Se me salieron las lagrimas al leerlo. Naci en Sonora en una frontera y despues me mude unos cuantos metros al norte a una frontera de Arizona. Esta ciudad es como un paraiso para los nuevos emigrantes como yo. Mas del 95% de la poblacion habla espanol, incluyendo el correo y el ayuntamiento. Sin embargo he enfrentado descriminacion en otros lugares de Arizona y de California por ser una mujer en administracion de negocios y por hablar ingles con acento.
>
> Por parte del lado de mi mama la discriminacion era fuerte por el tono de la piel (moreno, no negro) y por las costumbres de Mexico. Mi mama y su familia son de Tamazula, Jalisco y mi mama se mudo a la frontera de Sonora antes de ser una adolecente. Mi propia familia desdenaba sus propias tradiciones. Yo creci teniendo pavo para navidad en lugar de tamales, y mi mama adoptaba rapidamente las costumbres americanas como el dia de accion de gracias. Debido a que siempre he sido rebelde y viviendo en Arizona mi piel se ha hecho mas obscura (tenemos ahorita temperaturas de mas de 110 grados F). Me gustan algunos corridos y las corriditas para admiracion de mi mama. Tambien me gustan y uso rebozos y tengo una colleccion de ellos.
>
> Me siento muy afortunada y he asimilado la cultura americana muy bien. Estados Unidos es mi patria y estoy orgullosa de ser estadounidense. Mexico forma parte de mi misma y las tradiciones mexicanas son parte de mi vida. Tengo dos culturas y he encontrado un buen balance para combinarlas. Estoy buscando mis raices porque esas raices me formaron y son lo que yo soy.
>
> Rosie Cordova
Who we are
Antonio,
A que te refieres? No me gusta tu tono. Tu vas a participar en las dos idiomas!? Yo no puedo participar como tu en espanol. Si tu no puedes participar en ingles, voy a usar un servicio de traduccion como del Google, etc. para leer tus e-mails.
Si, aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS porque nuestros antecedentes tal vez vinieron de ranchos de mexico, pero el webmaster Arturo y el moderator Joseph son estadounidenses y pusieron este site sin pedir ninguna cosa de nosotros, y los primeros participantes aqui somos estadounidense. Unos podemos participar en dos idiomas, otros solamente en ingles o solamente en espanol como tu. Yo creo que puedes escribir en ingles, no? Sera interesante cuantos del grupo hablan solamente una idioma, sea ingles o espanol. Yo so miembro en otras sites de genealogia en mexico donde se habla solamente espanol y no les voy a decir que tienen que escribir en ingles.
Nuestros Ranchos tiene tres nombres para los e-mails: "general" es para "contar historias muy bonitas" etc, "research" es para temas de arboles de genealogia, y "announce" es para anuncios.
Perdoname mi pobre espanol, pero este e-mail es el unico que vas ver en espanol de mi parte. Dejo a otros que son realmente bilingue que participen en las dos idiomas si quieren, y estara bien conmigo si no.
Saludos cordiales,
Emilie
Port Orchard, Estado de Washington, Estados Unidos - USA
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Santillan
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
A esto es a lo que me referia mi comentario de escribir en español, no era para contar historias muy bonitas por cierto, solo de participar en los dos idiomas y mas señalandoles que aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS en español.
Saludos cordiales y felicidades al que comparte su historia y utiliza el español e ingles en su narracion
Antonio Santillan
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rcordovamba@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:40:57 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
>
> Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.
>
> Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I call it the land that time forgot. His family is the Cordovas, one of the founding families of Taos. The traditions and the Spanish that they speak is from two hundred years ago. The people there are very proud of their heritage, which they attribute to Spanish and Native Americans--not Mexicans.
>
> >From my mother's side of the family, discrimination against dark skin (brown not black) and against Mexican traditions was strong. My mother and her family were from Tamazula, Jalisco and she moved to Sonora by the border as a pre-teen. My own family looked down on their own traditions. I grew up having turkey for Christmas instead of tamales, and my mother was quick to adapt any new American tradition like Thanksgiving. Being the rebel that I have always been, I live in this Arizona dessert and my skin is now darker as I tan easily (our weather is 110 degrees now!). I like a variety of music including corridos and corriditas to my mother's dismay. I wear rebosos and have a good collection of them.
>
> I feel very fortunate and have assimilated the American culture well. The US is my country, and I am a proud American. Mexico is a part of me and Mexican traditions are part of my life. I have two different cultures that I balance and have found a comfortable mixture of both of them. I am looking for my roots because it is who I am.
>
>
>
> Excellente comentario! Se me salieron las lagrimas al leerlo. Naci en Sonora en una frontera y despues me mude unos cuantos metros al norte a una frontera de Arizona. Esta ciudad es como un paraiso para los nuevos emigrantes como yo. Mas del 95% de la poblacion habla espanol, incluyendo el correo y el ayuntamiento. Sin embargo he enfrentado descriminacion en otros lugares de Arizona y de California por ser una mujer en administracion de negocios y por hablar ingles con acento.
>
> Por parte del lado de mi mama la discriminacion era fuerte por el tono de la piel (moreno, no negro) y por las costumbres de Mexico. Mi mama y su familia son de Tamazula, Jalisco y mi mama se mudo a la frontera de Sonora antes de ser una adolecente. Mi propia familia desdenaba sus propias tradiciones. Yo creci teniendo pavo para navidad en lugar de tamales, y mi mama adoptaba rapidamente las costumbres americanas como el dia de accion de gracias. Debido a que siempre he sido rebelde y viviendo en Arizona mi piel se ha hecho mas obscura (tenemos ahorita temperaturas de mas de 110 grados F). Me gustan algunos corridos y las corriditas para admiracion de mi mama. Tambien me gustan y uso rebozos y tengo una colleccion de ellos.
>
> Me siento muy afortunada y he asimilado la cultura americana muy bien. Estados Unidos es mi patria y estoy orgullosa de ser estadounidense. Mexico forma parte de mi misma y las tradiciones mexicanas son parte de mi vida. Tengo dos culturas y he encontrado un buen balance para combinarlas. Estoy buscando mis raices porque esas raices me formaron y son lo que yo soy.
>
> Rosie Cordova
Who we are
Thanks, Emilie. I've taught English to students from all over the world at a local high school for nineteen years. Every year my students from Mexico are irritated by the fact that many of our US students of Mexican descent don't speak Spanish. They actually believe that they can speak Spanish and merely choose not to use it. I try to explain that most of their families have been in the US for generations, and for various unfortunate reasons, have lost the language. They still don't believe it, and respond: "como puede ser, si tienen el nopal en la frente". Alice BB
--- auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com wrote:
From: "Emilie Garcia"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:48:43 -0700
Antonio,
A que te refieres? No me gusta tu tono. Tu vas a participar en las dos idiomas!? Yo no puedo participar como tu en espanol. Si tu no puedes participar en ingles, voy a usar un servicio de traduccion como del Google, etc. para leer tus e-mails.
Si, aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS porque nuestros antecedentes tal vez vinieron de ranchos de mexico, pero el webmaster Arturo y el moderator Joseph son estadounidenses y pusieron este site sin pedir ninguna cosa de nosotros, y los primeros participantes aqui somos estadounidense. Unos podemos participar en dos idiomas, otros solamente en ingles o solamente en espanol como tu. Yo creo que puedes escribir en ingles, no? Sera interesante cuantos del grupo hablan solamente una idioma, sea ingles o espanol. Yo so miembro en otras sites de genealogia en mexico donde se habla solamente espanol y no les voy a decir que tienen que escribir en ingles.
Nuestros Ranchos tiene tres nombres para los e-mails: "general" es para "contar historias muy bonitas" etc, "research" es para temas de arboles de genealogia, y "announce" es para anuncios.
Perdoname mi pobre espanol, pero este e-mail es el unico que vas ver en espanol de mi parte. Dejo a otros que son realmente bilingue que participen en las dos idiomas si quieren, y estara bien conmigo si no.
Saludos cordiales,
Emilie
Port Orchard, Estado de Washington, Estados Unidos - USA
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Santillan
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
A esto es a lo que me referia mi comentario de escribir en español, no era para contar historias muy bonitas por cierto, solo de participar en los dos idiomas y mas señalandoles que aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS en español.
Saludos cordiales y felicidades al que comparte su historia y utiliza el español e ingles en su narracion
Antonio Santillan
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rcordovamba@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:40:57 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
>
> Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.
>
> Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I call it the land that time forgot. His family is the Cordovas, one of the founding families of Taos. The traditions and the Spanish that they speak is from two hundred years ago. The people there are very proud of their heritage, which they attribute to Spanish and Native Americans--not Mexicans.
>
> >From my mother's side of the family, discrimination against dark skin (brown not black) and against Mexican traditions was strong. My mother and her family were from Tamazula, Jalisco and she moved to Sonora by the border as a pre-teen. My own family looked down on their own traditions. I grew up having turkey for Christmas instead of tamales, and my mother was quick to adapt any new American tradition like Thanksgiving. Being the rebel that I have always been, I live in this Arizona dessert and my skin is now darker as I tan easily (our weather is 110 degrees now!). I like a variety of music including corridos and corriditas to my mother's dismay. I wear rebosos and have a good collection of them.
>
> I feel very fortunate and have assimilated the American culture well. The US is my country, and I am a proud American. Mexico is a part of me and Mexican traditions are part of my life. I have two different cultures that I balance and have found a comfortable mixture of both of them. I am looking for my roots because it is who I am.
>
>
>
> Excellente comentario! Se me salieron las lagrimas al leerlo. Naci en Sonora en una frontera y despues me mude unos cuantos metros al norte a una frontera de Arizona. Esta ciudad es como un paraiso para los nuevos emigrantes como yo. Mas del 95% de la poblacion habla espanol, incluyendo el correo y el ayuntamiento. Sin embargo he enfrentado descriminacion en otros lugares de Arizona y de California por ser una mujer en administracion de negocios y por hablar ingles con acento.
>
> Por parte del lado de mi mama la discriminacion era fuerte por el tono de la piel (moreno, no negro) y por las costumbres de Mexico. Mi mama y su familia son de Tamazula, Jalisco y mi mama se mudo a la frontera de Sonora antes de ser una adolecente. Mi propia familia desdenaba sus propias tradiciones. Yo creci teniendo pavo para navidad en lugar de tamales, y mi mama adoptaba rapidamente las costumbres americanas como el dia de accion de gracias. Debido a que siempre he sido rebelde y viviendo en Arizona mi piel se ha hecho mas obscura (tenemos ahorita temperaturas de mas de 110 grados F). Me gustan algunos corridos y las corriditas para admiracion de mi mama. Tambien me gustan y uso rebozos y tengo una colleccion de ellos.
>
> Me siento muy afortunada y he asimilado la cultura americana muy bien. Estados Unidos es mi patria y estoy orgullosa de ser estadounidense. Mexico forma parte de mi misma y las tradiciones mexicanas son parte de mi vida. Tengo dos culturas y he encontrado un buen balance para combinarlas. Estoy buscando mis raices porque esas raices me formaron y son lo que yo soy.
>
> Rosie Cordova
Who we are
A long time ago, I learned that few of us are truly bi-lingual
(grandparents came to US during the early 1900's).. That is....our emotional language
is our first language. For example, I speak Spanish with babies and when I
am loving or embracing someone with my presence. "O, que linda....que
chula...como to de adoro"....and of course anger....(smile).
I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.
Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US). How I wish I could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do in English.
The fact is that my ancestors had very little education and spoke Spanish
to communicate, but could not read or write. This translates to the
Spanish that I know....it is colloquial, limited to "ranchero" background (and as
a city dweller am often confused by the usage of verbs/nouns). Spanish is
the language of love for me, the language of my ancestors. As a young
one, I was asked to write letters to family members on their behalf - they
would dictate....and I would phonetically write.
Indeed, I am the last of the "Mohicans" on our Luna/Herrera side of the
family that can speak, read, and write Spanish....but it was not because I
studied the language...it was because of my personality....wanting to
communicate. I am deeply aware of my limitations....I feel like the "india" in
the Spanish household...especially when someone expects me to speak the
language of my ancestors with fluency....hmmm....I would argue that it is the
same process as losing our indigenous tongue....and could counter this
standard argument "why is it that you don't speak our native tongue?" (My
husband's grandmother was Tarrascan....but embarrassed to speak it because of
the dominant culture, except when she was around her people or angered or
being loving).
By the way, I am highly educated...possessing 3 masters degrees....
I suppose I could translate this....but it would not possess the strength
of someone who was truly versatile in the language....and if anyone cares
to....please translate this for the relatives left behind.....
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
**************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer
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Who we are
Esperanza,
Would you be related to any of the Luna/Herrera family in Pueblo, Colorado?
----- Original Message -----
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:25:13 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
A long time ago, I learned that few of us are truly bi-lingual
(grandparents came to US during the early 1900's).. That is....our emotional language
is our first language. For example, I speak Spanish with babies and when I
am loving or embracing someone with my presence. "O, que linda....que
chula...como to de adoro"....and of course anger....(smile).
I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.
Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US). How I wish I could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do in English.
The fact is that my ancestors had very little education and spoke Spanish
to communicate, but could not read or write. This translates to the
Spanish that I know....it is colloquial, limited to "ranchero" background (and as
a city dweller am often confused by the usage of verbs/nouns). Spanish is
the language of love for me, the language of my ancestors. As a young
one, I was asked to write letters to family members on their behalf - they
would dictate....and I would phonetically write.
Indeed, I am the last of the "Mohicans" on our Luna/Herrera side of the
family that can speak, read, and write Spanish....but it was not because I
studied the language...it was because of my personality....wanting to
communicate. I am deeply aware of my limitations....I feel like the "india" in
the Spanish household...especially when someone expects me to speak the
language of my ancestors with fluency....hmmm....I would argue that it is the
same process as losing our indigenous tongue....and could counter this
standard argument "why is it that you don't speak our native tongue?" (My
husband's grandmother was Tarrascan....but embarrassed to speak it because of
the dominant culture, except when she was around her people or angered or
being loving).
By the way, I am highly educated...possessing 3 masters degrees....
I suppose I could translate this....but it would not possess the strength
of someone who was truly versatile in the language....and if anyone cares
to....please translate this for the relatives left behind.....
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
**************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir…
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Who we are
I don't think so but am unsure......I have been able to trace the Herrera
side of the family in Tlaltenango, but am stunted with the Luna side - this
is what I have been able to verify:
Felix Luna married (1851)
Maria de los Angeles Trejo (b) 8/5/1825: Parents: Jose Tomas Trejo(m)
5/16/1827 & Maria Tereza de Jesus Espinoza
1) Atanacio baptized 1855
2) Maria Petra bapt 6/30/1856
3) Margarito Luna bapt 6/12/1853 married (5/24/1876) Regina Herrera
Florensina Miramontes 5/2/1849 (married previously???)
1) Atanacio Luna Trejo bapt: 8/15/1855 m(10/21/1874)
Maria Florencia Corchado bapt:2/25/1858
1) Manuel Luna Herrera b 11/22/1888 d 1/21/1944 m. Norberta Herrera
Ynigues b 1894 d 3/6/1941
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Who we are
MMM. Since we're on Luna subject.
How about Guerrero De Luna? Do you have anything on this one?
Thank advances..
Robert R
P+25
________________________________
From: "Latina1955@aol.com"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2009 12:13:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
I don't think so but am unsure......I have been able to trace the Herrera
side of the family in Tlaltenango, but am stunted with the Luna side - this
is what I have been able to verify:
Felix Luna married (1851)
Maria de los Angeles Trejo (b) 8/5/1825: Parents: Jose Tomas Trejo(m)
5/16/1827 & Maria Tereza de Jesus Espinoza
1) Atanacio baptized 1855
2) Maria Petra bapt 6/30/1856
3) Margarito Luna bapt 6/12/1853 married (5/24/1876) Regina Herrera
Florensina Miramontes 5/2/1849 (married previously???)
1) Atanacio Luna Trejo bapt: 8/15/1855 m(10/21/1874)
Maria Florencia Corchado bapt:2/25/1858
1) Manuel Luna Herrera b 11/22/1888 d 1/21/1944 m. Norberta Herrera
Ynigues b 1894 d 3/6/1941
**************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer
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Who we are
Very well said Esperanza. I think the majority of us who are second to third generation born in the US fall in this profile. From birth to my very early years, when not with my parents, I spent a great deal of time with my maternal grandparents who spoke only Spanish. Because of this I was fluent in Spanish until about age nine. Once entering school much of that fluency was lost as English dominated both social and personal life. My parents were both first generation US citizens and grew up during a time when speaking Spanish resulted in punishment in school, so although they often spoke to each other in Spanish, then spoke to us in English. I was lucky enough to have my grandmother until she died in 1987 at age 93 so I was able to keep up my Spanish, however, once she passed the frequency of the use of Spanish for me became pretty limited. Like you, I too and most of the cousins of my generation, are the "last of the Mohicans" when it comes to
speaking and writing Spanish.
Olivia
Rowland Heights, CA
________________________________
From: "Latina1955@aol.com"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:25:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
A long time ago, I learned that few of us are truly bi-lingual
(grandparents came to US during the early 1900's).. That is....our emotional language
is our first language. For example, I speak Spanish with babies and when I
am loving or embracing someone with my presence. "O, que linda....que
chula...como to de adoro"....and of course anger....(smile).
I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.
Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US). How I wish I could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do in English.
The fact is that my ancestors had very little education and spoke Spanish
to communicate, but could not read or write. This translates to the
Spanish that I know....it is colloquial, limited to "ranchero" background (and as
a city dweller am often confused by the usage of verbs/nouns). Spanish is
the language of love for me, the language of my ancestors. As a young
one, I was asked to write letters to family members on their behalf - they
would dictate....and I would phonetically write.
Indeed, I am the last of the "Mohicans" on our Luna/Herrera side of the
family that can speak, read, and write Spanish....but it was not because I
studied the language...it was because of my personality....wanting to
communicate. I am deeply aware of my limitations....I feel like the "india" in
the Spanish household...especially when someone expects me to speak the
language of my ancestors with fluency....hmmm....I would argue that it is the
same process as losing our indigenous tongue....and could counter this
standard argument "why is it that you don't speak our native tongue?" (My
husband's grandmother was Tarrascan....but embarrassed to speak it because of
the dominant culture, except when she was around her people or angered or
being loving).
By the way, I am highly educated...possessing 3 masters degrees....
I suppose I could translate this....but it would not possess the strength
of someone who was truly versatile in the language....and if anyone cares
to....please translate this for the relatives left behind.....
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
**************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir…
p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3)
Who we are
Well said, Esperanza!
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Latina1955@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
A long time ago, I learned that few of us are truly bi-lingual
(grandparents came to US during the early 1900's).. That is....our emotional language
is our first language. For example, I speak Spanish with babies and when I
am loving or embracing someone with my presence. "O, que linda....que
chula...como to de adoro"....and of course anger....(smile).
I observe my husband (born in Mexico) still do his math calculations in
Spanish, even though he came here at 10 years old.
Our second language becomes our academic and social language (for those of
us educated for the majority of our life in the US). How I wish I could
communicate as effectively in Spanish as I do in English.
The fact is that my ancestors had very little education and spoke Spanish
to communicate, but could not read or write. This translates to the
Spanish that I know....it is colloquial, limited to "ranchero" background (and as
a city dweller am often confused by the usage of verbs/nouns). Spanish is
the language of love for me, the language of my ancestors. As a young
one, I was asked to write letters to family members on their behalf - they
would dictate....and I would phonetically write.
Indeed, I am the last of the "Mohicans" on our Luna/Herrera side of the
family that can speak, read, and write Spanish....but it was not because I
studied the language...it was because of my personality....wanting to
communicate. I am deeply aware of my limitations....I feel like the "india" in
the Spanish household...especially when someone expects me to speak the
language of my ancestors with fluency....hmmm....I would argue that it is the
same process as losing our indigenous tongue....and could counter this
standard argument "why is it that you don't speak our native tongue?" (My
husband's grandmother was Tarrascan....but embarrassed to speak it because of
the dominant culture, except when she was around her people or angered or
being loving).
By the way, I am highly educated...possessing 3 masters degrees....
I suppose I could translate this....but it would not possess the strength
of someone who was truly versatile in the language....and if anyone cares
to....please translate this for the relatives left behind.....
Esperanza
Chicagoland area
**************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir…
p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3)
Luna/Herrera
Hi Esperanza,
I came across your post I am descended from Calletano de Luna + Barbara Marin Herrera. Are you my long lost cousin?
Harry Mercado
Who we are
Yes, Alice,
I was once told by a red-headed, blue-eyed Mexican that I should speak Spanish because of my "face". Well, I guess I should speak Nahuatl or Tewa and not Spanish, since I have a Native American face and not a Spanish face. I told that guy that by his reasoning he should speak English because he looked like an Anglo. Se nos ve en la cara que somos indijenos, pues debemos hablar Nahuatl en vez de espanol. Ha!
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: AliceBB
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
Thanks, Emilie. I've taught English to students from all over the world at a local high school for nineteen years. Every year my students from Mexico are irritated by the fact that many of our US students of Mexican descent don't speak Spanish. They actually believe that they can speak Spanish and merely choose not to use it. I try to explain that most of their families have been in the US for generations, and for various unfortunate reasons, have lost the language. They still don't believe it, and respond: "como puede ser, si tienen el nopal en la frente". Alice BB
--- auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com wrote:
From: "Emilie Garcia">>
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:48:43 -0700
Antonio,
A que te refieres? No me gusta tu tono. Tu vas a participar en las dos idiomas!? Yo no puedo participar como tu en espanol. Si tu no puedes participar en ingles, voy a usar un servicio de traduccion como del Google, etc. para leer tus e-mails.
Si, aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS porque nuestros antecedentes tal vez vinieron de ranchos de mexico, pero el webmaster Arturo y el moderator Joseph son estadounidenses y pusieron este site sin pedir ninguna cosa de nosotros, y los primeros participantes aqui somos estadounidense. Unos podemos participar en dos idiomas, otros solamente en ingles o solamente en espanol como tu. Yo creo que puedes escribir en ingles, no? Sera interesante cuantos del grupo hablan solamente una idioma, sea ingles o espanol. Yo so miembro en otras sites de genealogia en mexico donde se habla solamente espanol y no les voy a decir que tienen que escribir en ingles.
Nuestros Ranchos tiene tres nombres para los e-mails: "general" es para "contar historias muy bonitas" etc, "research" es para temas de arboles de genealogia, y "announce" es para anuncios.
Perdoname mi pobre espanol, pero este e-mail es el unico que vas ver en espanol de mi parte. Dejo a otros que son realmente bilingue que participen en las dos idiomas si quieren, y estara bien conmigo si no.
Saludos cordiales,
Emilie
Port Orchard, Estado de Washington, Estados Unidos - USA
----- Original Message ----->>
From: Antonio Santillan
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
A esto es a lo que me referia mi comentario de escribir en español, no era para contar historias muy bonitas por cierto, solo de participar en los dos idiomas y mas señalandoles que aqui se llama NUESTROS RANCHOS en español.
Saludos cordiales y felicidades al que comparte su historia y utiliza el español e ingles en su narracion
Antonio Santillan
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org>>
> From: rcordovamba@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:40:57 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Who we are
>
> Great post! It brought tears to my eyes. I was born and raised in a border town in Sonora and later moved a few yards North of the fence and live in a border city in Arizona. This is a wonderful safe heaven for new immigrants like me. More than 95% of the population speaks Spanish, including the post office and city hall. However, I have worked in other areas in Arizona and California and have seen dealt with stereotypes and discrimination for being a woman in management and for speaking English with a Mexican accent.
>
> Other interesting issues related to our own discrimination is embarrassment for being Mexican or having dark skin and New Mexicans. My husband is a pocho from New Mexico. He thinks he is Spanish and his family gets offended if they are called Mexicans. He is more Mexican than me! Ha Ha! His family has been in New Mexico for more than two hundred years and married the natives and Mexicans there. This was before New Mexico became part of the US. He is from Taos, NM, and I call it the land that time forgot. His family is the Cordovas, one of the founding families of Taos. The traditions and the Spanish that they speak is from two hundred years ago. The people there are very proud of their heritage, which they attribute to Spanish and Native Americans--not Mexicans.
>
> >From my mother's side of the family, discrimination against dark skin (brown not black) and against Mexican traditions was strong. My mother and her family were from Tamazula, Jalisco and she moved to Sonora by the border as a pre-teen. My own family looked down on their own traditions. I grew up having turkey for Christmas instead of tamales, and my mother was quick to adapt any new American tradition like Thanksgiving. Being the rebel that I have always been, I live in this Arizona dessert and my skin is now darker as I tan easily (our weather is 110 degrees now!). I like a variety of music including corridos and corriditas to my mother's dismay. I wear rebosos and have a good collection of them.
>
> I feel very fortunate and have assimilated the American culture well. The US is my country, and I am a proud American. Mexico is a part of me and Mexican traditions are part of my life. I have two different cultures that I balance and have found a comfortable mixture of both of them. I am looking for my roots because it is who I am.
>
>
>
> Excellente comentario! Se me salieron las lagrimas al leerlo. Naci en Sonora en una frontera y despues me mude unos cuantos metros al norte a una frontera de Arizona. Esta ciudad es como un paraiso para los nuevos emigrantes como yo. Mas del 95% de la poblacion habla espanol, incluyendo el correo y el ayuntamiento. Sin embargo he enfrentado descriminacion en otros lugares de Arizona y de California por ser una mujer en administracion de negocios y por hablar ingles con acento.
>
> Por parte del lado de mi mama la discriminacion era fuerte por el tono de la piel (moreno, no negro) y por las costumbres de Mexico. Mi mama y su familia son de Tamazula, Jalisco y mi mama se mudo a la frontera de Sonora antes de ser una adolecente. Mi propia familia desdenaba sus propias tradiciones. Yo creci teniendo pavo para navidad en lugar de tamales, y mi mama adoptaba rapidamente las costumbres americanas como el dia de accion de gracias. Debido a que siempre he sido rebelde y viviendo en Arizona mi piel se ha hecho mas obscura (tenemos ahorita temperaturas de mas de 110 grados F). Me gustan algunos corridos y las corriditas para admiracion de mi mama. Tambien me gustan y uso rebozos y tengo una colleccion de ellos.
>
> Me siento muy afortunada y he asimilado la cultura americana muy bien. Estados Unidos es mi patria y estoy orgullosa de ser estadounidense. Mexico forma parte de mi misma y las tradiciones mexicanas son parte de mi vida. Tengo dos culturas y he encontrado un buen balance para combinarlas. Estoy buscando mis raices porque esas raices me formaron y son lo que yo soy.
>
> Rosie Cordova
Walking in Two Worlds
My Canales came from Zacatecas, what was the firing squad all about? bc wrote:
--- On Tue, 7/7/09, Emilie Garcia
From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 1:11 AM
Linda,
My grandfather from Jerez and his brother and brother in law had a choice; stay in Zacatecas and face a firing squad or get on a train to the border in 1913. None of them ever went back, and they remained in seclusion until the 1940s. They weren't alone; thousands came over the border, and the US welcomed them, right?
Emilie ; gandalf3.1@netzero.com
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
Well said but you did not post your name? Who do we thank for sharing this line of thought that reflects so much on many of us.. I'd forgotten the word Pocho, another put down..
When I was in my paternal ancestral home in Jerez, the locals destinguished between the families who left during the revolution, like mine, and those who stayed through the hard times. The locals who's ancestors stayed felt very proud and sad for those of us who's ancestors left.
Linda in B.C.
--- On Mon, 7/6/09, gandalf3.1@netzero.com > wrote:
From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com >
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:19 PM
I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ;
I grew up in the U.S. in a small mining town located in southeastern Arizona . When my father's family left the villa in Los Altos , they settled in Miami and Jerome Arizona. He came to the states when he was just 2 years old. All of the men in my fathers family were miners, as was my father when he returned to AZ after a stint in the military. My father's first language at home was Spanish, he said he really didn't start speaking English until after he began elementary school. He knew first hand the challenges of not being able to speak english well so he always stressed to my sister and I how important it was to know BOTH languages, it was he said , to our benefit to know more than one language and he was right.
The trouble was, growing up in the Southwest the early 70's, we were not allowed to speak Spanish at school. If you did, you got a trip to the principle's office, or sent home...sad but all too true. We still spoke it at home, but as we continued in school and made non Spanish speaking friends, we used it less and less. That was my first brush with the idea that there was an US and a THEM. Many of you can relate to this I'm sure. Growing up in the States I was just like any other American kid, I listened to Rock and Roll, not corridas , had long hair and loved hot rods. I played football not soccer . Although I loved to hear stories about my family history , I knew nothing of Los Altos...it was another world to me. Many of my friends were in the same boat, some of our familes had been in the US for three or more generations. My mother's people were some of the first settlers in the Tucson area, before Arizona was even a state, who had the right to
tell
me I didn't belong ? We
kidded each other in Spanglish...mixing both languages, a hybrid, just like the culture we were growing up in. Back then there was no lable like Hispanic, or even worse, Latino...if you were a Mexican American , you were a Chicano or, if you came from Spanish stock like we did, you were a Hispano, which is a Southwestern term to denote ties to Spain, not a Spanish version of Hispanic.
My home town is 8 or so miles from the Mexican frontera of Sonora. As my friends and I entered high school, we came into contact with other kids who lived right on the border of Sonora and AZ in a small town called Naco. These kids roots were in Sonora proper, their familes were in the US for maybe a genration at the most, they still had strong ties to Mexico and towns like Agua Prieta , Hermosillo and Nogales. Once again I got a taste of US and THEM. We were told by some, not all, that we were not Mexicans, we were pochos, we were lost people who's parents sold out and wanted to be gringos. It had nothing to do with a difference of appearence,it had everything to do with the side of the border you happened to be born on...you were from Mexico or el otro lado, the motherland or the other side, and there was no way to change it, period.
So not only did we have challenges in the Anglo world , constant reminders that we were different . Things like not being able to go swimming at the local Elk's Club pool, or not being able to date certain non Mexican girls, even though many of us, myself included ,were constantly confused with being anything but Mexican because of our light skin . We also had to deal with what I call reverse racism, from other Mexicans who felt we didn't have the right to call ourselves Mexicans , not all of them of course, I must stess this, but to a good amount of Mexicanos we were just pochos.
That is what put me on the path to learning about my family's roots, I was no longer content with what I learned from text books, none of it fit....and forget about movies or pop culture ! To this day everyone with a Spanish surname in a movie is either the bad guy or the girl that gets bedded by the Anglo hero, it's getting better, but not by much. I came to understand totally why people do family research, why I do research... to find MY ancestors. The group that I belong to and cannot deny me entry by right of blood, WHO EVER and WHAT EVER they were...is what I AM. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
To post, send email to:
general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
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Walking in Two Worlds
Barbara,
I wish I knew what it was all about for my family. We can read generalized accounts of the battles in Zacatecas, but they don't mention the names of the participants at the lower levels, only the generals, and their aides. I am not even sure what side my male ancestors were on, but whichever side, it was the losing one in that particular battle. Losers in battles get executed, especially officers in order to demoralize their troops.
Somewhere in Mexico there must be records of rosters for each regiment, right down to the lowliest rifleman on foot. Only the general officers and their aides and mounted regiments had horses. The others drove teams of horses pulling supply wagons, or pulled cannons on foot, etc. It would be interesting to find out what classification in the armies my ancestors were part of, what their duties were. My husband fortunately knows which side his grand-father was on--he was a "federal", rode a horse, but he still came over the border to live like so many others that fought against him.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Barbara Chedester
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
My Canales came from Zacatecas, what was the firing squad all about? bc> wrote:
--- On Tue, 7/7/09, Emilie Garcia
From: Emilie Garcia>
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 1:11 AM
Linda,
My grandfather from Jerez and his brother and brother in law had a choice; stay in Zacatecas and face a firing squad or get on a train to the border in 1913. None of them ever went back, and they remained in seclusion until the 1940s. They weren't alone; thousands came over the border, and the US welcomed them, right?
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
Walking in Two Worlds- Barbara - Emile
Hi guys ,
My name is Welester G. Alvarado and I know this retired Lt. Ricardo Palmerin from the Mexican military .
He passed me the military web site that supposedly has records of all the military men dating back quite a bit .
I will contact him and get the site from him again ( because I erased it from my PC )
and forward it to you .
Who knows we could get lucky !
Welester
> Barbara,
>
> I wish I knew what it was all about for my family. We can read generalized accounts of the battles in Zacatecas, but they don't mention the names of the participants at the lower levels, only the generals, and their aides. I am not even sure what side my male ancestors were on, but whichever side, it was the losing one in that particular battle. Losers in battles get executed, especially officers in order to demoralize their troops.
>
> Somewhere in Mexico there must be records of rosters for each regiment, right down to the lowliest rifleman on foot. Only the general officers and their aides and mounted regiments had horses. The others drove teams of horses pulling supply wagons, or pulled cannons on foot, etc. It would be interesting to find out what classification in the armies my ancestors were part of, what their duties were. My husband fortunately knows which side his grand-father was on--he was a "federal", rode a horse, but he still came over the border to live like so many others that fought against him.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009
Walking in Two Worlds- Barbara - Emile
A wonderful idea Welester
Thanks,
Del
Walking in Two Worlds
Well said but you did not post your name? Who do we thank for sharing this line of thought that reflects so much on many of us.. I'd forgotten the word Pocho, another put down..
When I was in my paternal ancestral home in Jerez, the locals destinguished between the families who left during the revolution, like mine, and those who stayed through the hard times. The locals who's ancestors stayed felt very proud and sad for those of us who's ancestors left.
Linda in B.C.
--- On Mon, 7/6/09, gandalf3.1@netzero.com wrote:
From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:19 PM
I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ;
I grew up in the U.S. in a small mining town located in southeastern Arizona . When my father's family left the villa in Los Altos , they settled in Miami and Jerome Arizona. He came to the states when he was just 2 years old. All of the men in my fathers family were miners, as was my father when he returned to AZ after a stint in the military. My father's first language at home was Spanish, he said he really didn't start speaking English until after he began elementary school. He knew first hand the challenges of not being able to speak english well so he always stressed to my sister and I how important it was to know BOTH languages, it was he said , to our benefit to know more than one language and he was right.
The trouble was, growing up in the Southwest the early 70's, we were not allowed to speak Spanish at school. If you did, you got a trip to the principle's office, or sent home...sad but all too true. We still spoke it at home, but as we continued in school and made non Spanish speaking friends, we used it less and less. That was my first brush with the idea that there was an US and a THEM. Many of you can relate to this I'm sure. Growing up in the States I was just like any other American kid, I listened to Rock and Roll, not corridas , had long hair and loved hot rods. I played football not soccer . Although I loved to hear stories about my family history , I knew nothing of Los Altos...it was another world to me. Many of my friends were in the same boat, some of our familes had been in the US for three or more generations. My mother's people were some of the first settlers in the Tucson area, before Arizona was even a state, who had the right to tell
me I didn't belong ? We
kidded each other in Spanglish...mixing both languages, a hybrid, just like the culture we were growing up in. Back then there was no lable like Hispanic, or even worse, Latino...if you were a Mexican American , you were a Chicano or, if you came from Spanish stock like we did, you were a Hispano, which is a Southwestern term to denote ties to Spain, not a Spanish version of Hispanic.
My home town is 8 or so miles from the Mexican frontera of Sonora. As my friends and I entered high school, we came into contact with other kids who lived right on the border of Sonora and AZ in a small town called Naco. These kids roots were in Sonora proper, their familes were in the US for maybe a genration at the most, they still had strong ties to Mexico and towns like Agua Prieta , Hermosillo and Nogales. Once again I got a taste of US and THEM. We were told by some, not all, that we were not Mexicans, we were pochos, we were lost people who's parents sold out and wanted to be gringos. It had nothing to do with a difference of appearence,it had everything to do with the side of the border you happened to be born on...you were from Mexico or el otro lado, the motherland or the other side, and there was no way to change it, period.
So not only did we have challenges in the Anglo world , constant reminders that we were different . Things like not being able to go swimming at the local Elk's Club pool, or not being able to date certain non Mexican girls, even though many of us, myself included ,were constantly confused with being anything but Mexican because of our light skin . We also had to deal with what I call reverse racism, from other Mexicans who felt we didn't have the right to call ourselves Mexicans , not all of them of course, I must stess this, but to a good amount of Mexicanos we were just pochos.
That is what put me on the path to learning about my family's roots, I was no longer content with what I learned from text books, none of it fit...and forget about movies or pop culture ! To this day everyone with a Spanish surname in a movie is either the bad guy or the girl that gets bedded by the Anglo hero, it's getting better, but not by much. I came to understand totally why people do family research, why I do research... to find MY ancestors. The group that I belong to and cannot deny me entry by right of blood, WHO EVER and WHAT EVER they were...is what I AM. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
To post, send email to:
general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Walking in Two Worlds \ Erlinda\ Emilie
I'm sorry I forgot to post my name ! I guess I got caught up ....it's Robert Gonzalez~. Thanks for your kind words, I know there are more than a few people here who can relate to what we all went through growing up !
Walking in Two Worlds
Linda,
My grandfather from Jerez and his brother and brother in law had a choice; stay in Zacatecas and face a firing squad or get on a train to the border in 1913. None of them ever went back, and they remained in seclusion until the 1940s. They weren't alone; thousands came over the border, and the US welcomed them, right?
Emilie ; gandalf3.1@netzero.com
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
Well said but you did not post your name? Who do we thank for sharing this line of thought that reflects so much on many of us.. I'd forgotten the word Pocho, another put down..
When I was in my paternal ancestral home in Jerez, the locals destinguished between the families who left during the revolution, like mine, and those who stayed through the hard times. The locals who's ancestors stayed felt very proud and sad for those of us who's ancestors left.
Linda in B.C.
--- On Mon, 7/6/09, gandalf3.1@netzero.com > wrote:
From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com >
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Walking in Two Worlds
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:19 PM
I've been reading through some of the wonderful posts in regards to struggling with speaking Spanish and the challenges of living in two cultures , just some thoughts ;
I grew up in the U.S. in a small mining town located in southeastern Arizona . When my father's family left the villa in Los Altos , they settled in Miami and Jerome Arizona. He came to the states when he was just 2 years old. All of the men in my fathers family were miners, as was my father when he returned to AZ after a stint in the military. My father's first language at home was Spanish, he said he really didn't start speaking English until after he began elementary school. He knew first hand the challenges of not being able to speak english well so he always stressed to my sister and I how important it was to know BOTH languages, it was he said , to our benefit to know more than one language and he was right.
The trouble was, growing up in the Southwest the early 70's, we were not allowed to speak Spanish at school. If you did, you got a trip to the principle's office, or sent home...sad but all too true. We still spoke it at home, but as we continued in school and made non Spanish speaking friends, we used it less and less. That was my first brush with the idea that there was an US and a THEM. Many of you can relate to this I'm sure. Growing up in the States I was just like any other American kid, I listened to Rock and Roll, not corridas , had long hair and loved hot rods. I played football not soccer . Although I loved to hear stories about my family history , I knew nothing of Los Altos...it was another world to me. Many of my friends were in the same boat, some of our familes had been in the US for three or more generations. My mother's people were some of the first settlers in the Tucson area, before Arizona was even a state, who had the right to tell
me I didn't belong ? We
kidded each other in Spanglish...mixing both languages, a hybrid, just like the culture we were growing up in. Back then there was no lable like Hispanic, or even worse, Latino...if you were a Mexican American , you were a Chicano or, if you came from Spanish stock like we did, you were a Hispano, which is a Southwestern term to denote ties to Spain, not a Spanish version of Hispanic.
My home town is 8 or so miles from the Mexican frontera of Sonora. As my friends and I entered high school, we came into contact with other kids who lived right on the border of Sonora and AZ in a small town called Naco. These kids roots were in Sonora proper, their familes were in the US for maybe a genration at the most, they still had strong ties to Mexico and towns like Agua Prieta , Hermosillo and Nogales. Once again I got a taste of US and THEM. We were told by some, not all, that we were not Mexicans, we were pochos, we were lost people who's parents sold out and wanted to be gringos. It had nothing to do with a difference of appearence,it had everything to do with the side of the border you happened to be born on...you were from Mexico or el otro lado, the motherland or the other side, and there was no way to change it, period.
So not only did we have challenges in the Anglo world , constant reminders that we were different . Things like not being able to go swimming at the local Elk's Club pool, or not being able to date certain non Mexican girls, even though many of us, myself included ,were constantly confused with being anything but Mexican because of our light skin . We also had to deal with what I call reverse racism, from other Mexicans who felt we didn't have the right to call ourselves Mexicans , not all of them of course, I must stess this, but to a good amount of Mexicanos we were just pochos.
That is what put me on the path to learning about my family's roots, I was no longer content with what I learned from text books, none of it fit...and forget about movies or pop culture ! To this day everyone with a Spanish surname in a movie is either the bad guy or the girl that gets bedded by the Anglo hero, it's getting better, but not by much. I came to understand totally why people do family research, why I do research... to find MY ancestors. The group that I belong to and cannot deny me entry by right of blood, WHO EVER and WHAT EVER they were...is what I AM. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List
To post, send email to:
general(at)nuestrosranchos.org
To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org